All you needed in Phase 1 to run Naxx 10 was some slightly geared characters that can hit bosses off of normal heroic dungeon gear and some heroism emblems (which you can quest out ~120),
Now you can still run normal heroics for valor emblems which give Naxx 25 level loot, Naxx 10 gives Naxx 25 loot, and Naxx 25 gives twice as much as Naxx 25 loot.
The reason for this post is that the “Heroic +” or “Titan Rune Dungeons” are way overtuned for casual groups (that are beyond Naxx 10 gear requirements) and a 10 man Naxx run can give better loot with less hardship.
Yes I made this post because I went through several groups that wiped and disbanded because of H+ dungeons, but I can see that there is no value in running them and its easier to just farm valor and do your dailies. Getting 4/5 people webbed on a single phase in the same second of Anub in AN H+ isn’t a skill issue, its just a poorly implemented and overtuned RNG system to create a “difficulty” spike to make it seem like the gear is worth it when it’s already been outdone by other systems in place.
To be honest these dungeons really aren’t that hard. You just have to actually use strategy if you aren’t in 25 man gear. Even if you are you have to pay attention to what is happening in the zone. The difficulty isn’t the problem.
I do agree they are completely obsolete for anyone that can do 10 man Naxx or higher at this point.
10 man Naxx is arguably easier than these dungeons because there is nothing new about Naxx and it was already stupid easy at the 10 man level. Once people figure out how to do these new dungeon rules they will also be very easy, but what is the point since you get 25 man gear from Naxx 10?
I completed Naxx 25 tonight and it doesn’t give you twice as much look, it gives you 5 pieces per boss, so +1 loot per boss.
I also did an Heroic+ Dungeon today, possibly one of the easier ones, Utgarde Keep, and I found it to be a bit of a challenge, to the point it was actually kind of fun (I have almost full BiS and needed the Surge Needle Ring). However to your point, I agree that it’s kind of over-tuned for Fresh 80’s, maybe ones in some pre-BiS looking to gear up quickly to do Ulduar. They would be better off going for Naxx 25 gear in Naxx 10 first than do the heroic +.
The benefit though is that Heroic+ is something that can be run every day for phase 1 items, some of which are BiS. I know people on here like to claim no one would go to 10 if they could get 25 gear but for some classes there are items from 10 mans that were best in slot in Phase. So as a catch up mechanic for 10 man gear, it’s better than doing 10 man raids weekly.
These Herioc+ (Titan Rune) dungeons have created more elitism. People forming these groups want 4k or 4.5k gear score. It’s ridiculous. The point of the dungeons was to gear up outside of raiding Naxx. If you have 4k gear score or higher you really don’t need much of anything from the gear that drops in Heroic+. Just today I was on my rogue. He’s decently geared, I don’t raid with him so he’s about 3.7-3.8k. Plenty of damage for heroic+ but its difficult finding a group. Then a paladin invited me, summoned me down to Tanaris, then kicked me with not even a word. My hearth was on cd so I was stuck there for 5-10 minutes. They need to add separate queues as well. Typing in the notes does nothing. I say H+ or H-, I still get asked for the opposite or worse get summoned then go inside to find they want to do + instead or vice versa.
Yeah, heal or tank Erekem in VH+ and tell me Blizzard wasn’t smoking something when they were playtesting this. I’ve had three VH groups wipe, wipe again, and disband on that boss (all three times Erekem was the 2nd boss, so it’s the massive penalty for a wipe). Tank gearscores ranging from 3900-4200. My shaman healer is 4K GS. DPS were all around or above 4K GS. Each windfury hit that boss does is 75% or more of the tank’s health. The attacks come in faster than two GCDs, so unless you perfectly time a big heal on the first hit, there’s no GCDs to react to the second strike. As a shaman healer, instinct would use riptide or LHW when the tank is suddenly critical, but those don’t heal enough to allow the tank to survive the next windfury strike - oh, and you’re getting peppered by mirror images that push back your healing so good luck even getting a big heal off. All of this consternation for gear that still leaves you far behind the curve of raiders.
It’s not. Different groups want different things. Some groups are geared and just need the emblems and a fast run, while others might want to gear up. The majority probably want a fast run and have gear so asking for members to have similar gear when there are 20 other DPS in the queue is not elitism at all. They want someone like them in their group and there is nothing wrong with that.
That being said, there are plenty of people who don’t care. I invite the first 4 people I see, don’t check gear and clear the place every day with no issues. I can’t be the only one doing this
True story. And this is how that boss has always been done in every normal and heroic VH run I’ve ever done 10 years ago and now, on many alts; and it’s never once been called into question by any member of any group I’ve ever ran with. I read the comments on wowhead and see that this is the “hard” way to do this boss; funny how it took this overtuned version for it to matter - but also, piss poor game design that you have to dig into comments on a 3rd party database website to get any hint as to why this is the “correct” strategy. All Blizz needed to do was have an emote like “Erekem is all angry now that you killed his cousin” or whatever… or even an achievement to indicate this is the more difficult approach “Survive Erekem’s stormstrike spam after killing his two goons first”.
I’ll just follow up by saying Xevozz + mirror images is also way overtuned in this dungeon and has been responsible for two wipe/disband results as well. It’s getting to where I won’t even look for VH groups because of those two bosses (but, hey thanks for the tip about the shaman boss, at least I can tell people what not to do now).
The webs from AN/OK are also wipe-inducing due to RNG, which is just bad design. As is mobs that net you while you get a debuff that requires you to move or you die. I’m all for some added challenge (I was running heroics 3-man before H+), but not when it’s dumb like this can be.
If Blizzard’s intent was to require being in a guild for H+, then it shouldn’t be available for unguilded players. 5-man content has generally always been impromptu (PUG-friendly) throughout the history of this game. I’d say your question would be fair if you were talking about raid content. I’m fine to stay in my lane and not raid; and I applaud Blizzard for creating content for non-raiders, but they missed the mark on the tuning.
The mechanics aren’t too bad and the mobs are still easy to smash. So it’s mostly working as intended if you adjust how you play to account for the changes.
However, what is annoying is the player-created “entry requirements” of stupid level GearScores of between 3800-4000 minimum (which is almost Naxx 25 geared). You can do the dungeons at around the 3200 range, it just takes a little longer and you need to actually pay attention. (Eg: Web wraps being a problem? Group up tighter to make it easy to break webs. Mirror Images a pain? Make them a priority.)
The issue is that most Naxx 25/Ulduar geared players just want to face roll these dungeons for badges every day instead of using these dungeons for their intended purpose: Gearing Alts and late-comers to raiding levels.
Really? Everyone in my guild loves them. Forums is a very small group of mostly whining players, especially in Classic.
Also, to everyone saying “Just dO nAXx!” Naxx has weekly lockout, H+ is a daily opportunity over all of these dungeons to gear up your Alts., and offers Conquest. Doesn’t need to be easy.
it has no place in classic era, wotlk has been gutted/destroyed.
People didn’t play on private servers for 15 years and petition Blizzard for classic, to have it gutted by retail features…if we wanted this type of content, we would of just played retail versions of the game.
Out of touch company combined with annoying vocal minority that cries for classic to be like retail, insanity 0 logic community.