They’re cool and all, but the main monk tree and the WW spec tree still need to be addressed. Rogues just got their stuff reworked, when are getting our trees looked at?
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Our class tree definitely needs attention.
As to the new Hero Talents, I really hope that opens up an avenue of ranged DPS spells or at least empowers the ones we have available to MW.
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Sadly I don’t see us ever getting the love we need. Well not WW at least, sure MW will get a buff and brew might but WW is the dead spec.
Am I the only one hoping we get like a super Saiyan hero class ability 
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I think a lot of us monk players hope that we go more super saiyen and less pokemon summoner.
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The potential was there. Revert the nerfs to Serenity and make TeB an option that doesn’t put a bullet in our leg and we’d essentially have Super Saiyan Blue with Kaioken.
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I second this. Class tree needs a total rework. The statues are terrible capstone talents - serpent statue is only useful to soomweavers, tiger statue is okay but underwhelming, and ox statue is just about useless for everyone except in rare niche cases for AoE tanking.
Hoping one of our hero talent options is for a mystical kind of monk that channels chi for powerful spell-like abilities.
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Im sure they will change the talent trees when they add hero talents.
Theyve got to make sure they work together after all
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Yeah, it’s entirely possible they rework the trees when adding the hero stuff. We won’t really know until spring, though.
I mean, yeah, based on history, things will look okay initially, then turn to crap. But, hey, miracles do happen…
Chi lightning could use some talents, i dunno maybe while channeling cast zen pulse or something to make it aoe. Its a pretty silly ability at the moment like a weak taunt.
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Yeah CJL, chi burst and wave have all been severely neglected and the hero talents could be a good opportunity to buff or augment them.
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Class tree mostly needs some of the pathing changes alot of other classes got and the capstones rethought. Would anyone be upset at the loss of the ww capstones being redone? The cat statue and damage proc are very low impact and a mild annoyance to my perspective.
Looking forward to seeing what themes we get with the hero talents. Hoping that the celestial hero talent path isn’t a brewmaster one since if it buffs yu’lon/chi ji and xuen thats awesome but if it buffs yu’lon/chi ji or xuen and niuzao thats gonna be questionable.
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But I love Pokemon lol
Super saiyan seems ok but that kinda entails some kind of uggo form effect and I dont like those.
So each spec will be touching two hero talent trees. Which ones do you guys think will be touching what?
The specs are
- Master of harmony
- Shado pan
- Conduit of the celestials
Seems to me that
It’d be like …
- Master of harmony
Windwalker - Shado pan
Mistweaver - Conduit of the celestials
Brewmaster (loops to 1)
Or maybe …
- Master of harmony
Brewmaster - Shado pan
Windwalker - Conduit of the celestials
Mistweaver (loops to 1)
Hero Class Semantics
Others have speculated elsewhere, but their speculation makes the most sense to me:
- Harmony will be Brewmaster and Mistweaver,
- Rogue Monk Hero will be Windwalker and Brewmaster
- Zookeeper Monk Hero will be Windwalker and Mistweaver
See this infographic on Warrior to how Hero Talents are expected to create bifurcations and intersections and “build out” the existing classes across two different specs.
The class design hierarchy seems to be different than we’ve been conditioned over the last few expansions. We are used to expansions offering tack-on systems to the class design function. Things they can add on and easily rip out at expansion end. Things the community resoundingly asked “Please stop doing that”.
If you look at how the design model works, it’s a tree map. As time goes on, instead of character building looking like Role > Class > Spec > Hero, you’ll likely swap to thinking about the Hero Talents you choose before your Spec. That is, character building will be more like Role > Class > Hero > Spec.
This is true for other classes moreso than Monk, since we are Role Limited to Specs, but that’s the principle. For example, when I play my Warrior, I will be more likely to think:
- “Mountain Thane? Dual spec is Prot and Fury”`
vs. - “Fury? Dual spec is Mountain Thane and Slayer.”
That’s because the Hero Talents may offer a separate viable role alternative, and I’ll want to cozy up into that particular fantasy more. Not all players are like me in that thinking though and I accept that the gang of “gamers” will just Google: “War Within Warcraft Class Tier List” or check Wowhead for “What should I spec in S1 11.0 Warcraft” and not think twice about it. That said, I’m personally extremely happy the game is shifting back towards player agency in character builds.
Time for my personal speculation:
I expect this System will become a tuning-pad to flesh out better hybridization and to break up homogeneity in class design, as the game has becoming overwhelmingly role-based instead of class theme-based over the evolution of the game’s lifecycle. This will help fill the world with a more diverse cast than “Pick 1 of the 3; Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer.” That said, Role is still the top of the hierarchy so I don’t expect a radical shift overnight. Stay Tuned™.
Moving on to Monk
Shado-Pan still gives me “paws” (ba-dum-tiss).
The biggest and most difficult thing for me to overcome is that Shado-Pan makes me think of their cast of characters first and foremost. Who are *“bearly” Monks… (ok, sorry–last one, I promise). The Shado-Pan are a group of Warriors, Rogues, Hunters, and the occasional Monk or Clerical Worker.
Taran Zhu always seemed closer to a Warrior in the Pandaria story. He was definitively mutated back to Monk for Legion, but his key skill is seeming distinctly borrowed from another “non-hero” class: Taran Zhu will occasionally perform a sneak attack, stunning all nearby enemies and increasing the damage that they take for 12 seconds. Despite calling him a Monk, he still strongly ties to Warrior through use of his polearm, and Rogue through his use of shadows, deception, and sneakery.
But he’s not even the biggest offender. Taoshi is straight up a Subtelty Rogue, being the Shado-Pan’s primary operative and Taran Zhu’s #2. There is no handwaving this one away, pointing at the “descriptors” for the champion definition. Want another one? Despite being a minor character, Nurong is a Hunter. And the list goes on that the Shado-Pan are not the order of Monks from Pandaria from the Temple of the White Tiger.
That’s before I even ask why is there a differentiation here from Lorewalkers and Masters of Harmony. Will Conduits of the Celestials truly be Conduits or just Buddies? Do we have any descriptions of how this will personify the motifs (things I’ve played at in prior posts about how current talent trees could and should be meaningfully and logically arranged already)? Or are we all weaving “castles on clouds”, made purely of mist?
All in all, maybe there’s some redeeming gameplay arc with Shado-Pan (in name only) that brings Monk closer to what the boomer Monk crowd has been looking for from the class, a more physically oriented unarmed combat master (“I -am- the weapon”). But because I try to immerse into this virtual world, I cannot look at Monk’s Hero Talent descriptions and think “This was made by someone who loves this game/universe/fantasy.” It really resonates the Minimum Viable Product vibe which has felt like an ongoing class feature, and not an accidental byproduct of “trying something different”.
Obligatory plug for a Flying Serpent Kick glyph that makes it Flying Ox Headbutt, so I too can live the “golden-glow DragonBall character, flying around WSG” fantasy. 
1 Like