I don’t, but then I don’t develop antipathy towards talents. They’re tools, means to an end, and part of the intended gameplay of the class. If I dislike how a class plays or how its kit works enough, I play a different class rather than expecting the class or its ensuing developments to cater to me.
I agree.
The problem is the OP said circle is worthless.
He’s just flat out wrong. Like objectively so. It’s an incredible spell. He just clearly doesn’t know how to play the class cuz of that.
It’s fantastic on near every raid fight I’ve ever done if you know what you’re doing. In this raid tier, it’s great on nearly every single fight. It’s good on most bosses too in dungeons. It’s great in delves.
No one denied he’s a Warlock.
He’s just a really bad one.
Its basically still missing the point to belittle the OP.
Maybe for the content he do is worthless, but again, that is not rly the point, but the point is if the skill is so “core warlock” it should be baseline, like it was, and not a choice.
True true. That’s the story of warlocks though. Take all our fun things we get and make them talents.
I remember baseline shadowburn man.
Nothing will change that though. Blizzard gonna blizz.
OP already said he didn’t use it when it was baseline. The fact that he refuses to take it doesn’t make the hero talent system involving that talent a problem, it means the OP has made a choice.
The talent system as we have it now works. This problem that OP has is a relatively fringe/niche issue overall.
People complained over the years about passive things. Artifacts giving one ability, Azerite giving no new abilities, Covenants giving exactly one new ability… But now people are mad that given hero trees interact with the base talent trees in a positive manner? Lol.
you are arguing against a tangent here, i don’t care about your beef with OP and what you and him think about the skill, my point is how the hero specs are flawed by buffing other talents that are choices and not mandatory.
Either make the hero talents buff baseline skills or obligatory talents(the ones you can’t switch) or make those talent baseline skills and not a choice, simple as that.
Works bad, the goal is to improve, its baffling that you are hellbent in the flawed system just because you got mad at OP because he doesn’t use one skill he should.
Okay, so what happens when none of the hero specs do anything interesting or specific to the talent trees at all? Then people complain because the trees are uninteresting or entirely passive.
The problem here from my perspective is that Demonic Circle is literally as accessible as it can be in the talent tree without being baseline. Part of the balancing act of the class and spec trees is juggling mandatory against optional against situational with a set number of points to work with. This is why Blizzard set out to reduce the bloat point in trees, to free up choices and make multi-point nodes not feel bad.
How Blizzard decides what is or isn’t baseline depends on the playerbase view of things in relation to the balance of the trees. Demonic Circle is centered very high in the tree to make it accessible without a major point cost. If a player decides that Demonic Circle isn’t for them, that’s their choice, but that doesn’t mean that the ability needs to go baseline. They can pick the other Hero Tree if they’re that bothered by it.
I see reason to occasionally adjust or tune the trees, which Blizzard has been doing plenty of in my opinion.
I’m not hellbent on keeping it, I just don’t see an issue with it like you or the OP do.
I didn’t get mad at the OP. He made a conscious decision to not take Demonic Circle. I’m merely expressing my opinion on that choice and how it relates to the talent system as a whole.
Then they do something interesting to baseline skills and/or talents that can’t be changed
Isn’t that obvious.
Thats not a problem its a no sequitur, if the demonic circle is such a core warlock skill it should be baseline.
Skills being stripped from the base class are a lazy design philosophy, it shows they don’t have imagination into the class tree and/or don’t think the skill is that important to the class
A hero talent buffing another talent is doubling down on the laziness;
they are doing plenty yes, improving for the better more often they don’t, many classes/specs suffer from lack of points because some talents have 2 nods or the capstones being garbage.
Again, this is not a problem only for warlocks, Warrior by example suffer this, a hero talent buffs shockwave, if i don’t take the talent, the hero talent becomes useless
This sounds like it’s mostly a problem for people who develop antipathy towards specific abilities. So yeah, fringe/niche issue.
I don’t see it as a lazy design philosophy, I see it as being what people asked for. Again, OP is free to not take Demonic Circle. That’s their problem.
Some nodes are still 2pt nodes due to balancing point spending in trees. Blizzard cut down on a lot of that.
Capstones, eh. I’m indifferent there.
I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m right. I’m saying I disagree with your point of view.
Thats another non sequitur, the problem still is buffing a skill that is not mandatory but a choice being flawed, you liking that skill or not
If you like good, if you don’t, get screwed is not rly a “niche” issue, but a flaw in the design.
No one asked for their base skill to be yoinked and be added as a talent that you have to waste skill points to get.
No, he is not free to do that, because the hero spec require you to get that specific talent, its not his problem but a problem in the talent tree, since there is not rly a choice here
im sure you are.
Exactly.
The problem is that when one is pigeonholed into taking a talent they do not necessarily enjoy using, they are “taxed” for not taking it. This is through loosing a hero talent, being discriminated by the lock community, etc… which is completely unfair and takes away from the essence of the tree. The essence being the provided player choice in talents.
This whole thing could be avoided by not placing defensive and certainly not movement/utility talents in the hero trees. Those talents can easily be augmented in the class tree to be just as good as they are in the hero tree. If they are not that is a blizz failure.
In fact, most of this is a blizz failure for not providing better and more unique throughout talents in the hero trees. That doesnt mean more active talents, so dont mistaken what i say.
You’re free to feel that way, just as I’m free to be happy with how talents work for the most part.
You’re not wrong, I’m not right. I just simply tend to agree more with how things work now. OP made his choice, and his choice has consequences.
It’s not discrimination to tell the OP that their analysis of Demonic Circle is incorrect. They deliberately stated it’s useless. It’s not, they are just insistent on not using it. They’re free to ignore the talent, but they’re not free from the class being balanced and built around the assumption that you will probably be taking it. If they don’t like that one hero tree utilizes Demonic Circle or Howl of Terror, they’re free to switch to the other hero tree.
They are incorrect to assume it is useless, yes. However, blizz is in the wrong for pigeon holing people into taking one or the other.
At the bare minimum, it feels bad to have a hero talent red because one chooses to not play the stereotypical lock build.
Again, its a simple fix, really, for everyone. Implement the powers into the class tree and just provide offensive power in the hero tree. Win/win. I mean, 2/3 of the lock specs are in the bottom 10 in the ratings, including the hero tree we speak, so would it rly hurt? No, no it wouldnt.