Like i said, you are taking a issue with people and their “wrong choices”, when this is a design flaw that allow a core skill that should be baseline to be a talent choice.
That is literally what i said.
Right, the problem lies on the hero specs needing you to take a optional choice in the talent tree.
It is a double design flaw, no matter how you cope this
No, I’m telling them that they’re free to make this choice. Blizzard’s giving them that option.
It’s not a design flaw. If it was still baseline OP would probably be just as mad about being forced to have this ability in their spellbook/on their bars.
You said it ripped off the class basic toolkit. I didn’t agree with that, simply that it’s a choice system.
It’s not a problem. Either pick one of the talents needed, or don’t and accept it. 
Nah.
Clearly the option is not rly an option seeing the hero spec require you to have it.
Thats a slipery slope fallacy, him complaining about X does not have any bearing in the design being flawed.
It removed from the base class and put as a choice system making not a basic toolkit anymore.
yeh.
Okay, so don’t play that hero talent then.
Or spec into the talent and don’t press it. Dunno what kind of content OP does, so it probably doesn’t even matter, lol.
Nah, it just seems like the kind of complaint they’d make.
So talents aren’t part of your toolkit at all now? News to me.
If thats the case, thats a design flaw.
Not the base/basic toolkit, the base is anything you learn by leveling and you gain automatically, yeah you learn something new everything.
If a talent is so good and mandatory it shows how the talent tree have a problem, by not making a basic skill. Hero specs needing optional talents is a design flaw.
Nope. OP takes exception to Demonic Circle, that’s not the problem of the class design.
Or, hear me out, the talent system we have now functionally integrates into the leveling process to go a step beyond the original design.
The class tree effectively is a plug-and-play part of your base kit. Period.
If you can’t fathom that is a problem that a hero spec talent is dependant that you take ANOTHER TALENT, that is not mandatory then its own you.
Yeah, i know that, thats why i said its flawed.
I’m failing to see the problem.
You can say you consider it to be flawed all you want, but I don’t agree.
That is evidently.
I’m sure you thought that was clever, but I truly don’t see an issue with this. OP is making their choice, they either get to live with that or rethink it.
Totally agreed. People harping on OP for not taking demonic circle, but that’s not the point of the opinion. Hero talents should not affect the two base talent trees. It feels like you’re pigeon holed into a path for a system that is supposed to be about the freedom of choice. The way it is now just gives the illusion of freedom.
Lets just get to the very base of it.
Having a hero talent based on utility/defensive is horrible, just lazy design.
Having a hero talent specifically for a utility/defensive talent, pigeon holing people into taking said talent is even worse.
The glory of the trees is CHOICE. Guilt tripping people into taking specific talents is just bad. There is a time and place for certain talents to be used such as in raid/group, or if you prefer solo, but definitely not required by all to take them all the time.
There are times when those talents are completely useless. Like in delves, ill take decreased dmg to pet over movement anyday and idc who says what.
Blizz should have never implemented such hero talents. They should be pure output talents.
Thank you. Some of yall get it. I don’t care how useful others find Circle, I don’t. I can’t recall even using it at all for the past ten years so I took other talents that would actually be better for my playstyle. As for that, my Warlock is a powerhouse and I’m NOT giving up any of my choices for one that is worthless to me. Tying hero talents to them is broken.
Not particularly. They’re meant to emphasize specific parts of the class’s kit.
That you deliberately go out of your way to not use Demonic Circle isn’t really a system problem, it’s a you problem.
What I don’t understand is why they paired it with Howl of Terror which is essentially a PvP talent. It would have made more sense to pair it with an improved Demonic Gateway or an improved version of Fiendish Stride.
Every warlock takes demonic circle.
You’re very clearly not a warlock. And if you think you are, you’re a bad one.
Demonic circle is worthless. Period. I’m not wasting a talent slot on it.
It’s not, it’s pretty much a staple of Warlock’s kit. Running without it is a choice you’re free to make, but it’s not a good choice no matter how much you pretend it is.
I’m honestly curious to see how you path your talents in general at this point, lol.
Why on earth would you not take circle? Lol
Are you a world-quester by chance? Are you really mad that delves are hard now?
If skipping a class tree talent is ever a “wrong” choice, then it’s a failing on Blizzard’s part. The entire reason the choice exists is because there are (or should be) alternatives better suited for some players and some situations. Replace “no true Scotsman” with “no true warlock” I guess.
People are being unnecessarily antagonistic. “Your choice is bad” is not an argument against what OP’s criticizing, and it’s inane to the point of coming across as disingenuous. I’m sure you all have talents you always skip over for various classes (because this is not just a warlock issue, as it turns out) and would like to avoid having a lackluster hero talent node be a non-contribution to your class.
Demonic circle has its uses in niche situations, but the number of times I’ve felt it actually improved my gameplay is probably < 10 over the incredibly unhealthy number of hours I’ve spent on this character. If demonic circle is oh-so-important, why isn’t it a baseline skill? If it’s “a staple of the class,” can’t we include many of the talents you all aren’t taking in that bin? Shadowflame, howl of terror, amplify curse, etc. have all been around for a hot minute. Hero talents should not pigeon-hole choices, and since this is a problem across many classes right now, hopefully it gets addressed.
For the solo content I’m mostly doing these days, it’s an easy skip. I have nemesis and immortal spelunker so far this season, so it’s not that I only do the easiest content in the game, either.