Here's an idea, give warriors lust

Classes Warrior
41

Agreed. It’s not exactly a unique spec defining aspect anymore. Fury has had access to it for quite a few expansions, it was sidelined initially for Odyn’s Fury but then brought back in with the advent of Hero Trees.

Lore wise there isn’t really much differentiation for the most part. Media wise there are Dual Wielding Samurai/Swordmasters which were the initial inspiration for said archetype in other media.

That’s just the crux of it for the most part Slayer is basically just the aspects of Blademaster that are unique to warrior and renamed as such as certain utility they did not want to provide to us which is fair enough in itself. Windwalk and it’s stealth component and the Mirror images and their micromanagement weren’t exactly on theme for WoW’s Warrior.

Slaying Strike should’ve spawned an after image that cycles between different animations at random of a jump slash, horizontal slash, diagonal slash to strike your target though instead of it’s current weird sideways stab animation.

Honestly though WoW’s animation dept needs a shake up for Melee to have different animations for Swords, Axes/Maces and Polearm/Staff since they’re different fighting styles, I’d even go as far as changing up the combat ready stances to be based on weapons equipped and not races because let’s be honest some of the stances look awful with some weapon types and don’t quite make sense from a thematic pov. But that’s another rant entirely.

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42

I mean, thats you brought up, beads, cloth and no armor, thats straight up just visual related to transmog

I was talking about visual of the ABILITIES, like updating bladestorm animation for the one Samuro uses in HOTS

i can 100% look exactly like a blademaster from WoW already
https://i.imgur.com/0XQbFqC.png

I just need more of their skills

Thats not how Blademasters were played back in the wc3 days

We didn’t had anythign related to evasion, was just hit, hit, hit stronger with crits and hit even stronger with bladestorm.

Windwalk was stealth to scout the map, escape and to burst people, cause it gives bonus damage, you rly didn’t play like a rogue

Mirror image was to add confusion, again, something that can easily be done in wow as well.

Now that the milk is spilled we only have this hero spec to really on,

But this is not going to last, anytime soon it will be removed, and a rework it will come,

When that time comes, arms should be more blademaster while Fury more like Mountain King while Prot more like the tauren chieftain, in terms of gameplay/thematic

43

Here’s the thing though RTS gameplay doesn’t exactly translate well into a MMO, nor would it be fair to overload certain kits with excessive additions. Warriors having stealth would be a very weird thing to add.

Sometimes concessions made for theme are on point, others are whatever.

You can make yourself look like a lot of things in WoW with the current xmog system and the additions of a lot more cosmetic items.

I’ve got mogs that are based on different themes too, some more mercenary like with a mix of light armour cosmetic armour on chest/legs and plate boots/gloves, some more heavily armoured like an armoured general, some less bulky plate sets that look more Knightly or Regal like the one I’m using currently (DF S2 elite mixed with Red Trading Post recolour from remix), or even more barbaric looks.

The point being made is everyone’s going to have their own preferences on what archetypes they’ve found inspiration of for enjoying a certain playstyle and it’s a good thing we’ve got so much freedom of expression now regarding cosmetic choices.

44

Just like me and my magical princess mog.

Very fitting for a warrior might I add.

45

Settle down Cardcaptor Sakura.

46

Agreed on all this. I think, as with nearly every Hero Talent Spec, they should have gone further if they were going to bother calling them “Hero Specs” at all, but the direction of that goal seems about perfect to me.

The only common asks we’re missing are Spellbreaker —and that was more akin to a strange sort of Paladin than a Warrior anyways, and couldn’t neatly fit with any spec---- and a Prot/Arms Gladiator that could only ever have been an off-tankish balancing nightmare.

Colossus, Thane, and Slayer all feel like spot-on aims to me. They just need to be amp each up a bit more, so to speak.

And yes, WoW physical (character-animating) animations as a whole need some serious work.

So can a Paladin, Death Knight, Hunter, etc. That doesn’t make them Bladesmasters nor Blademasters them.

Agi doubled as a mit stat. Illusions redirected fire. And you had bundled nullifiers.

It giving bonus damage was why part of why it worked like a Rogue’s stealth. See Ambush compared to what fillers are available in its place outside of stealth.

“More like” is fine, so long as by that you don’t mean “primarily like”. There’s no need for a Maghar Fury Warrior to play like a storm-charged Wildhammer Dwarf, nor for Prot to take up a greataxe and wear totems on its back. They should be different coherent slices of a shared class, not different races’ unique martial traditions (shared, btw, across classes from said peoples/tribes/clans/races) cobbled together haphazardly.

  • That said, I wouldn’t mind being able to take on a shield-less Prot, DW or S&B Arms, single-weapon Fury, etc., with the class tree using choice nodes to provide cross-spec options without impinging on utility picks… >.>
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I know that, thats why i said their abilities to be redesigned for wow

Yeah, that’s point, i just need windwalk and mirror image and im set

Right its bladestorm, the playstyle and the thematic that make arms the blademaster

We almost have all of it, we only need mirror image and windwalk

It just gives you damage

Tricking people yeah, thats covered and can be done in wow

But is not the main point of the ability and was used more for scouting

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I had to look that up but yeah, very fitting :smile:

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Late 90’s, early 2000’s cartoon network was a blast.

50

“We almost all of it, we just need”… the remaining 75% of their skills, a completely different visual theme, a different stat, a different lore, and a completely different class context, etc., etc. You know, the minor stuff. /s

My guy, check the wiki if you’re unable to boot up the game. Both STR and AGI gave eHP, but STR by increasing max HP and AGI via mit.

Yes, by Mages. To whom Mirror Image already belongs.

You literally just said also that it was used for initiation and escape as well. But by all means, try making good use of Bladestorm in multiplayer when just walking into the enemy army…

Regardless, though, you’re not about to make Warrior a cloaked scouting unit.

If you want a literal WC3 Blademaster so badly, try a cross-class private server. But you are not going to get a stealthed summons-managing half-naked AGI>STR=INT Warrior, on Arms or otherwise.

51

It’s almost like Warrior should have been the class with Bloodlust originally or something. Seriously it makes 0 sense for a Shaman to have a spell called BLOODLUST. Yeah really peaceful and elemental loving of you my Earth Dweller.

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50% we have blademaster and bonus to crit already

We have everything else, thematic, feeling, mogs, the fantasy of it.

Not rly samurais = warriors

Blademasters being shirtless is basic orc warrior

Pointless, it was agility for game mechanics, since the tauren chieftain was the str one, it just balance

What the ehck are you talking about, both are the same :smiley:

We even have blademasters as warrior trainners

Thats a bs argument, its like saying DH would not be a thing because Warlocks had demon form

Just take away from then, fak mages, do you care about then? i don’t the skill wasn’t their to begin with.

It can be used for that, but the main point was scouting, at early game, because the bonus speed, when you grow a bit of an army your blademaster is ALWAYS with then

Scouting was for early game, and the stealth was to kill some enemy workers at the start, after that you play him like a proper warrior commanding your army, quite fitting.

I don’t, thats why i proposed changes to windwalk and Mirror image to fit modern wow

The point is, Blademaster should be something you should be able to spec as arms, period, there should be one side of the tree that gives you full blademaster stuff, remove that crap about bleeds and dragon roar and we are set

It makes sense because it is a spell, horde shamans use magic to drive the units into frenzy

What it DOESN’T make sense is giving that to mages and evokers

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That’s more of a relic from Warcraft 3 than anything else. The effect has been given to multiple classes in their own flavor (EG Mage’s adjusting the flow of time with Time Warp).

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We have none of those but the mogs, which every class then has since, outside of 2h swords (which not all blademasters used anyways), they’re universal appearances.

Mate, a guerilla with an AK or a naval petty officer are as much a “warrior” as a samurai necessarily would be. A samurai just meant a titled retainer, equivalent to any baron or marquis or lord. The term you’re probably thinking of is simply bushi.

And at no point when samurai had actually highish combat participation did they go bare chested into combat with a greatsword. Their most frequent weapons during wartime were the bow (skilled archers being considered far more valuable than any skilled melee combatant) and spear until warfare (yes, even in the Sengoku period) simply went the way of the gun. Swords were a symbol more than a practicality, seeing significant use only in peacetime and specifically because of locking themselves out of broader technological time. They typically wore at first an equivalent of a reinforced gambeson if needing a degree of mobility (far from unarmored, even if also far from plate) on foot or lamellar armor (heavyier than typical mid-late European moderate plate), not pantaloons and wooden bling.

55

No? maybe you are playing arms wrong

Right

Answer, do warrior in wow use guns? no, then this is a non sequitur

Blademasters are masters of the blade, and Arms focus on their weapon, which mostly consist of blades

Blademasters are warriors, Arms is the spec that most fulfill that fantasy and niche, we literally just need two skills and its done.

56

The hell does transmog have to do with how one plays Arms?

You’re using a misconception about a thing on Earth to justify sticking an unarmored, illusion- and stealth-magic-using agility unit into a plate strength class. Your basis (a misconception about Samurai), warrant (that such would have any bearing on whether a magical Agi unit should be a Warrior), and conclusion are each off.

A “warrior” in lore (that of Earth, Draenor, or Azeroth) is simply one whose training is bent towards war. In feudal Japan, that meant guns for as long as there were guns, while prior to that, bows primarily drew the difference between the trained and the rank and file. This Samurai necessarily equals Warrior has no bearing on WoW warriors; they never simultaneously had anything in common with WoW Warriors and Warcraft Blademasters. That Blademaster is therefore a Warrior is still more errant.

No more so than a Paladin is a “Warrior”. You’re looking at a culture in which virtually every adult not considered degenerate or disabled has martial training. Your average “Shaman” will be proficient with every weapon a “Warrior” or “Hunter” or “Blademaster” would be proficient with. The difference between a “hunter” and “warrior” among those cultures has to do with what they most often fight against, beasts or other tribes/races.

To say that because Blademasters can use melee weapons they must be Warrior is like saying that because a WC3 Troll unit can attack from range, it must be a Hunter despite (A) virtually every troll in the RTS games having ranged weapon training and (B) the explicit description of their skills as being honed for war.

57

First, all blademasters use 2h, i think there are two excptions who don’t.

Second, we do have those besides the mogs, Arms play very well like a blademaster by being mobile and having powerful blows with mortal strike and execute, we just got our playstyle messed up in late expansions

you are the one doing misconceptions about the class purely because how the class played in the RTS due to the limited engine.

In woW even warriors use some sort of magic.

There is no misconception about samurai, wow blademasters are based on then

no, are you rly ignoring how blademasters are WARRIOR TRAINERS? are you ignoring how the game itself label Blademasters as arms warrior in the mission tables?

Blademaster are to warriors what farseer are to shamans

When a blademaster become a paladin trainer you come back to me with this discussion.

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So literally not “all”. More importantly, though, what does single-2H necessarily have to do with mastery over arm(ament)s (as per specializing in… “Arms”)?

Their mobility is identical to that of Fury and Prot.

You have more concentrated ppgcd hits available now, max hit for max hit, than you did back in WoD or even Legion outside of capping Focused Rage and stacking Mastery.

This has nothing to do with the WC3 engine. It’s the lore, from WC3 onward to today.

Proficiency with a two-handed weapon does not make an orc a blademaster; every orc not addled, crippled, or a child was proficient with them. What made them blademasters was their distancing themselves from the training typical among the rank-and-file warriors of their clan towards an ascetic obsessive focus on cultivating a killing spirit or ‘third sight’. Their training… was that of a martial monk. They were an AGI > INT=STR unit with Windwalk, a non-elemental version of Storm, Earth and Fire, an ascetic body-and-mind path to power, and a channeled AoE.

You say that while having no idea what samurai even are/were nor, if it were made the basis of a theme, how a “Samurai” would differ from other thematic clusters. How could I then trust that there’s a coherent, let alone distinct, theme behind what you’re asking for?

You’re ignoring that pugilists (otherwise Monks), pirates (otherwise Rogues), explicit hunters (Hunters), and wastelanders (also Rogues) have also been warrior trainers, and Blademasters have been part of Monk and Shaman questlines. There is no clearcut taxonomy here placing Blademasters as a type of Warrior.

Blademasters are not simply nor strictly warriors; hell, their whole distinction was from NOT being warriors. They split themselves apart, temporarily or forever, from the broader warfare to become Blademasters, a mentally-sourced distinction, while their basic martial style remained that of any other warrior.

Blademasters shunned Armor. Warrior has the highest passive Armor in the game. Blademasters were based around Agility. Warriors are based around Strength. Blademasters were stealthy burst-hitters. Warriors are not. Blademasters had illusion magics, mind-body-spirit-gestalt magics, and/or shamanistic magics. Warriors do not.

Warriors can grab from Blademasters whatever fits their class —as per throwing Bladestorm into Warrior in WotLK or across the more numerous connections to Monk— but you are not getting a Warrior capable of stealth-sprinting or mirror image use nor would thematically be more tied to Agility and equally to Intellect, on Arms or otherwise.

You’re mistaking a race’s martial tradition for class-worthy distinctions and using circuitous logic “Blademasters are based on Samurai, so Samurai are like Bladesmasters, and Samurai were Warriors, so Blademasters must be Warriors” to back that conflation.

Blademaster is not a clean fit for any WoW class. Stop insisting that we carve apart Warrior in a misguided attempt to make Blademaster fit it regardless of its very clear distinctions from Warrior and its equal or greater fit among other classes. Your doing so makes no more sense than, say, throwing out Paladin to base Protection purely around Spellbreaker, Hunter to base Survival purely around Shadow Hunter, etc.

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Exceptions all exist, doesn’t mean the norm is not true

Actually prot mobility is better, but thats not rly the point, since those stuff can be easil yfixed with some tweaks, you are using today game balance as defacto proof of something when it merely one of the windows of game design, that would change with the rework

The lore shows blademaster as the pinnacle of orcish warriors, period, they are based around strength first, as it is orcish society.

They are warrior who “transcend” having other powers outside just zug zug and bonk, again, you find this very commonly in asian media like manwhas and mangas about how warriors train their ki to be able to be fast as the eye can’t follow, how they have footwork techniques that create phantom illusions

This is all warrior, and it fits arms, thus, it should be reworked to have that as an option

Ok smartpants, what samurais are?

show then to me, i at least can name Ronakada as actually warrior trainner and a blademaster in Cata

I can also name Lantressor of the blade, who was a follwer arm warrior in WoD Garrison

What do you have?

In the orc society, blademasters are known as legendary warriors of the Burning Blade clan.

Bladestorm: By focusing their warrior energies, blademasters can become living cyclones of fighting rage. Spinning their great blades faster than the naked eye can see, they are capable of simultaneously damaging any enemy troops in their vicinity

so, they they split themselves apart? or you are just making that up?

Again, thats nonsense, a lot of warrior in the game shunned armor, because of their race

Literally Garrosh mate, only uses the tusks of manoroth and boots, Cairne and Baine using rags, Zul’jin straight up use pants and so on.

And i didnt say i want that, i said taking mirror image and windwalk and reworking to work in WoW and its already done, you are the one with the weird thing about transplanting a RTS gameplay here, not even dH play the same they did in the RTS, wake up

No, you are missing the blademaster, just like mountain king are racial warriors and they should be represented in the warrior class

Not all warriors are blademasters but all Blademasters are Warrior, and arms is the spec that better represent that and thus should be reworked to better represent thatr fantasy

It is for warriors, for the arms spec in specific

No, because they already are.

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Again, unless you are counting any combatant as a “Warrior”, this has no baring. Anyone who goes to war, especially if with training for that purpose, is a “warrior” in the general sense, around which the chronicles were written.

That does not make any and every wartime combatant a “Warrior” in anything approaching the WoW sense — a plate-armored combatant based around leveraging defensive tools, channeled rage, and tactics and weapon expertise.

And if you want to base Warrior instead on unarmored shaman, ascetics, and scout troops… that ship has long since sailed.

What you quoted has nothing to do with isolating themselves from other wartime combatants or those training for warfare. And yes, ignoring march or raid orders to continue isolating themselves in pursuit of perfecting their connection with their inner instinct is isolating themselves from the remainder of warriors.

That… IS stealth-sprinting (you even explicitly asked that they get bonus movement speed and stealth) and mirror image use.

No, Warrior is not a collision of Blademaster, Mountain King, and Tauren Warchief. Arms is not Blademaster and should not be merely Blademaster. Arms should be a specialization of a Warrior —the WoW class— that has to do with mastery over arms.