We already give a buff called battle shout.
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Could give them banners like varian in hots.
Group has no druid? You’ve got a banner for that.
Stam buff?
Spell power?
Then add a unique one for complete groups/raids that offer avoidance/leech/speed
Lust would be putting a band aid on the deep wounds warrior has been dealt. There are many problems pertaining to our tree(s) and baseline toolkit across specs.
where is gladiator stance? where is berzerker stance for arms and prot? why are stance auras undertuned and boring that switching them is near useless? why does prot have slam and whirlwind? why does arms/fury have shield block and shield slam? why cant arms use half of its abilities with a 1h weapon and shield equipt? why is ignore pain on the gcd for arms and non existant with fury? why does fury/arms get avatar, reck and bladestorm but prot only avatar? why is hamstring on the gcd
list goes on and on…go ahead give us a lust its not that much more haste then the drums give that i carry in my bags lol so my idea is give warriors back what has been taken over the last decade
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Bladestorm should be Exclusive to Arms, most of the questions you asked are answered by problems with thematic and class/spec fantasy, that blizzard themselves created, because they inherently don’t understand the fantasy of those specs and because we came from an unprune that added a lot of useless stuff.
And, in <5 adjectives or a single phrase, what is Arms’ theme, then?
I only need one word: Blademaster
If you want more: a fast and mobile Warrior that deliver powerful and letal blows
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@Hellscreamer
Largely agreed in spirit, but some food for thought:
Gone, thankfully, as it existed only to remove stance-dancing, not that it was ever an ability in itself. It was a passive that, in effect, removed three abilities from being usable in combat (Shield Block, Defensive Stance, and Battle Stance), just to make a redundancy of Shield Slam. Far better would have been to just allow a new nuke attack skill (Shield Charge) that shared charges with Shield Block, thereby enhancing the extent of (counter)offensive dynamics available to Prot instead of removing that swing from them just to make an inherently unbalanceable mock-DPS.
Imho, the better question here is as you wrote below: where is the value of having Battle Stance on one’s bar for Prot?
A separate second offensive stance , in the other hand, provided nothing for Arms or Protection in any iteration of the game.
Though, ofc, Battle Stance and Berserker Stance themselves do nothing either that just toggling Defensive Stance off couldn’t have done.
Good question. That tuning, at least for Prot, is awful. If anything, instead of going from losing 20% mit for an ~8.3% damage bonus, we should have nerfed Protection Stance by 5% mit (baselining that into Prot’s passive) to change it to a more frequently worthwhile 15 → 8.3% trade, instead of giving us only a ~3% damage bonus for 20% mit lost.
Why not? If you don’t want to use them, just don’t put them on your bar.
Here, too, I suspect a better question is why Prot is still obliged to use regular Slam as filler between Revenge! procs in ST (causing button bloat), and why Mortal Strike and Raging Blow require specific grip configurations instead of merely incentivizing them.
There we go. Aye, that restriction makes little to no sense.
Because they provide the same result. CC break, frequently (on Thane, especially) more Rage than one can typically spend without hitting the IP cap, bursty AoE, etc. I wouldn’t mind getting those options back, but frankly slab-and-toothpick Prot spinning about has never felt especially thematic, if I’m being honest, especially compared to Unstoppable Force.
Perhaps because most (nearly all) direct CC is? Why would it not be?
Alternatively, would you be willing to put a 20 or 30s CD on it as would likely otherwise be required? (I certainly wouldn’t.)
Again, I suspect we’d agree in general idea even if not in detail; these are just some probing questions.
Yet, that hasn’t ever been how it plays or even has been explained to be intended to play.
Nor, outside a particular cloth-armored high-Agility unit, has going into Looney Tunes Tasmanian Devil spins been associated with any mastery of swordplay.
Why would someone dependent on actual mastery of their weapon fall back to just spinning in circles more so than an enraged zugzug Fury?
I’d love an actual “Blademaster” (or, Weaponmaster) focused Arms design —don’t get me wrong— but… unless by “Blademaster” you mean an illusion- and stealth-magic–using orc in a toga a la Warcraft III, there’s no more sense in making the spin-to-win of Bladestorm unique to Arms than to make Sudden Death’s opportunism unique to Fury.
This, though, would apply about equally to any combination of Warrior.
On that note, though, what kinds of changes would make Arms more thematic to you? Perhaps this is something more easily discussed by example than description.
And that is the problem, it should play more like blademaster.
Blademasters are plate-users and in wow they use strength
Because the animation is just animation, the idea is unleashing a tornado os precise and powerful strikes to everyone in your range.
The problem, is a inherently problem with warrior, is how they still use basic vanilla and warcraft 3 animation, Look at Samuro from ehartstone, their bladestorm is exactly what ours should look like:
https://youtu.be/B6xoRBkoZWQ?t=105
Again, you are focusing too much on the dumb and archaic animation, look at the video and you will change minds.
We don’t rly need a 100% copy from wc3, windwalk and mirror image can be tailored into Slayer easily without breaking the game.
I mean, that your fault for asking just one phrase and 5 adjectives, can’t rly complain if the answer is not to your liking
Beside,s Fury doesn’t play like that, fury is more of the barbarian, delivering more blows instead of letal ones.
And Prot is nothing like that.
But… that is essentially antithetical to Bladestorm, even per that newer animation. It’s literally unaimed random strikes. Killing Spree or a DotA Juggernaut’s Omnislash would be closer, no?
If I’m a blademaster, the last thing I should thematically be doing is just, once per 45 to 90s, utterly give up targeting or control over my attacks to just have pure, unvaried AoE with or without bonus random-target hits.
…why?
On the opposite, it is AIMED precise strikes
Im a blade MASTER, i am a MASTER of my art and craft, i don’t spin random, and don’t throw crap at the wall and see what it stick, all my blows are precise and hit my enemies if they are on the range of my weapon.
Lmao, why not, it is especially effective with dealing with a large crowd, you do not watch many cartoons/anime right? to not get those references
It is literally a continuous cleave. It does not have any targeting whatsoever. It doesn’t even have angular control. It has no more aim than does Thunder Clap or Battle Shout.
This is where your idea of a Blademaster is coming from?
If “does damage per second to all nearby enemies” is what constitutes a Blademaster to you, I suspect we have very different ideas of what such an archetype would mean, or even what “gameplay” in general looks like.
A master does not need to target, all his strikes land when he decide to, thats the bladestorm of a blademaster
What else would i get? that’s the main thing skills abilities draw their thematic and visuals from, from media, movies, cartoons, anime, hqs/manga
They need to draw their visuals and thematic from something, countless anime/cartoon have skills that the protagonist unleash a barrage of attacks and all of then land perfectly, because he is that good;
I mean, if you dumb down the thematic and visual of every skill to just focus on what they do, so yeah, you will kinda muddle their archetype quite a bit
images.app.goo.gl/fQmFgzDopV7xfmZE9
No, that’s solely the “power” of meme. Nothing about a blademaster would include transcending time and space to perfectly strike enemies they weren’t even attempting to hit.
But their actual function is the primary source of “what they do”. If with every attack you can teleport a clone of yourself, in place of your character model, up to 35 yards away to strike your target and teleport back while you continue to WASD uninterrupted from where you were before… you are ranged, no matter how much you might try to appear otherwise. They’re ranged attacks, just with a rather unique VFX.
In the same way, if an attack is pure self-centered radial AoE damage over time, it’s just an AoE, no matter whether its VFX redraw temporary models of your character specifically striking each—which neither WoW Bladestorm nor Heroes of the Storm Bladestorm do anyways; even the latter purely draws random slices.
And again… how the heck would pure AoE that literally removes control over your character’s offensive actions be archetypical for a Blademaster, let alone in a matter disparate from Fury? You are literally surrendering control to become an mad whirlwind of death. You are losing agency while it is active. You have less available expression of weapon mastery while using it, replacing that with exploitation of a battle-entranced state. And what’s more… it’s the opposite of chunky lethal hits; it’s instead a steady churn. That’s not athematic to Fury. That IS Fury.
thats not a meme, thats the point of thematic and fantasy of the spec
You can’t possible be pretending gameplay and how the visual of the skills work in the game is defacto how they are supposed to be right?
You know we have limitations due to engine and gameplay right? Like how warlocks are locked to have only one demon, when they obviously should have more?
The idea of the blademaster is that yeah, you actually transcend what normal warriors can do, and they perfectly hit the enemies, because they are attempting to it
Again, look at the samuro skill, its not just dumb spinning, it is actually precise an powerful strikes to everyone around him, the mechanic is just a normal AOE yes, but thematic and visuals gives a different meaning
It would also push to make bladestorm do more damage if it hits only one target.
Thats the problem? just don’t make pure AOE, which what Slayer basically does, its also a powerfull singleplayer ability
All and all, your problem is vision, you are too tied down to mechanics and the archaic animation, not seeing how things should be improved, saying they should be the same.
Ok, so? again, that’s a normal archetype in media, you would know if you follow this kind of stuff, main character prepare a skill/power that focus on doing something and while they are at it you can’t do other skills until its finished, is quite common.
There is even tropes where the MC prepare and consumes times channeling power to deliver a devastating blow, while he is at it, he does nothing as well.
Warrior is just too archaic, we need more cool stuff that characters do in medias out there
It is literally their skill in the RTS and in HOTS and it was in WOW for a long time
WoW blademaster is straight up a samurai using anime tropes.
It matters because going on a frenzied / battle-tranced rampage is already Fury. What would thematically make Arms “Arms” should be thematically distinct.
- Hell, Burning Blade, Laughing Skull, Blackrock, Bleeding Hallow, Bonechewer, Black Tooth Grin, and Thunderlord Battlemasters (not even an exhaustive portion) are all explicitly based around half-mad killer instinct/bloodcraze. Why then would that be fit uniquely for Arms, specifically, instead of Slayer (shared with Fury)?
Function, visuals, and theme. All three should be as distinct as possible.
By all means, name the class:
- Light to no armor
- Burst-focused guerilla skirmisher
- Archetype: The Ascetic
- Costume: Gourd and Beads
- Main stat: Agility
- Secondary stats: Intelligence and Strength
- Summon clones to duplicate your attacks (Storm, Earth, and Fire, Mirror Images)
- For a 4-second channel, continuously damage all nearby enemies (Fists of Fury, Remorseless Winter, Bladestorm)
- Combat stealth with increased movement speed (Vanish, Greater Invisibility)
- Crit on your next attack (Cold Blood)
That’s not a WoW Warrior, nor even particularly compatible with it…
You’d have a far better chance of getting to that WC3 unit through a Rogue or Monk Hero Class allowing for unique weapon choice.
Trying to build off that wholesale for an “Arms” spec (literally, the mastery of different weapons, described as the experienced, tactical veteran ), let alone without a massive grain of salt and context or without care to avoid overlap with Fury, is not wise.
Blademasters can be as Samurai Jack as you like. That doesn’t make them a good, let alone direct, fit for Warrior as it exists in WoW or is likely to ever exist in the context also of Fury and Prot.
We can, yes, take some bits and aspects of that archetype, but we shouldn’t be looking to grab up what was already given to other classes or specifically more relevant to another spec (except, perhaps, through a Hero Spec shared with said spec).
Yeah I don’t see Bladestorm as a reckless attack, It’s definitely more of a special technique, akin to say Link’s spin attack. There have been variations where Link’s had access to “great spin” (Minish Cap and I think one or both of the DS games) where it’s just the “cooler spin attack” that lasts longer.
You’re correct in a sense of the slayer’s random damage procs in Reap the Storm which does a 1 tick bladestorm spin, but also going back to the whole Bladestorm having similarities to Great Spin, Reap seems to draw contrast to Spin attack, funny little thing in most 3d and some 2d Zelda games you can spin your control stick in a circle and execute a spin attack without charging up for it.
As for what Archetype they’re going for with each spec it’s a little rough to decipher since they pull from multiple aspects be it a Samurai, Mercenary, Knight or Barbarian.
Warrior is an amalgamation of these Melee archetypes across media, but it’s animations are also constrained by the Blizz dev’s imagination, inspiration and limitations.
That is already covered by the barbarian-ish style of gameplay, more attacks, recklessly, not focused too much techniques, thats why you get hit more but doesn’t feel it, trully going into a beserker frenzy
In fact, BLEEDS should be something fury gives, since they HACK more, they strike more without the refined technique of arms, they would deliver blows who would cause bleeds, it would slowly overwhelm the enemy with their own vitality and endurance
True, thats why the arms warrior is the blademaster and the fury warrior is more of The mountain thane side
That’s a big miss here, because those clans were literally consumed by the burning legion and got turned into minions driven by demonblood, it have nothing to do with the playstyle of the class being half-mad killers.
Again, Blademaster and Samuro are straight up Samurais, based on the bushido code, their thematic revolves around japanese/chinese martial arts using the sword.
That does not scream crazy berserker.
True and im al up for that, thats why i would turn arms more into blademaster, getting rid of bleeds and focusing of mobility while fury stay the way it is but gets more berserk/barbarian stuff.
That’s almost slippery slope, just because things are one way doesn’t mean they cannot change.
Warriors also did not had bladestorm until WTLK, they can just add new stuff and the other blademaster toolkit
The note of slayer that gives Relentless pursuit can give you stealth while your movement speed is increased and make your next attack after charge to be a critical → there you have your version of windwalk for modern wow
Slayer strikes could simple summon a clone when it lands, and he keeps around for a few seconds to confuse the enemy, doesn’t even need to give damage → thats your version of mirror image for modern wow
And…
Transmog → Warrior
Warrior
Transmog->warrior
the rest is just gameplay from a RTS we can adapt.
No, that would not do, as blademasters are warriors using two handed weapons, not using daggers or staves
Seems like it fit quites nice
It would fit even more with a rework 
Agreed. And, again, I’m all for bringing in more aspects of that vibe since they’re just generally lucrative and pieces could fit into the surrounding system of Warrior.
I just fail to see…
- Why the heck Bladestorm, so long as it remains anything like it is right now, should be unique to Arms,
- Why Blademasters would have anything more to do with the mastery of arms than Fury (especially when lore points out that it’s not the cultivated near-madness of spirit / instinct that makes a Blademaster a Blademaster),
- Why a spiritually-minded ascetic stacking Agility first and Int about as much as Strength would be a WoW Warrior, or
- How Blademaster itself would make a complete theme when most of its skills have already been claimed by other classes.
We can take the Battle Trance to Arms. We could draw from weapon-specific effects that offer bonus strikes to (weapons transmogged to) Swords (among other weapons to master, each differently). We could take some effects on charge that draw from Blademaster vibes, adapt Storm Wind Wall, do a bit with afterimages a la “wind clones”, play around with Impale so it’s not just a bloat node, make Tactician actually feel more tactical (or generally “cool”), etc…
But at the end of the day, we aren’t orcish martial monks, as most Blademasters were, and most of Blademaster’s tools have already been borrowed by or duplicated over to other classes in name and/or function. It’s not enough to make a complete spec, nor should a plate class’s spec adjacent to Prot and Fury be forced to fit it.
We should be looking at what Slayer can take on to make Slayer cooler, rather than just how to we wrench out a spot in Warrior to force Blademaster in there. And, accordingly, that means ensuring Arms is a distinct but fitting partner to Fury in approaching Slayer.
Mate, it’s pre-Burning Legion WoD lore.
That describes a controversial take by certain Burning Blade and Warsong blademasters. The reason we get a questline about it, though, was that it was the underdog minority opinion.
Literally just two posts after your having said the visuals are paramount…
But by all means, let’s take an unarmored trickster burst evasion unit and just… make it the opposite of any of that. We can then force wholesale into Warrior something dissimilar in form, features, function, and lore alike. Hurray?
Again, I’m totally fine with doing that for Slayer, since Hero Classes draw from greater breadth and, in this case, wouldn’t take from Fury to give to Arms what thematically was at least as similar to Fury.
This sounds great! Set up crits with Charge (especially if we can also offer it a shorter minimum range), leave afterimages from speed of certain opportune (or, instinctive / inner-sight-ed / etc.) hits, perhaps even with those alone being our source of hero talent defensive value (even if just nominally/visually). Awesome.
This I’m all for, but that should be Slayer, not Arms itself. Arms itself needs to befit the plate class, and —at least to my mind— actually building towards veteran, tactically-minded mercenary/knight weaponmaster would do more to provide an interesting and unique path opposite Fury.