Here's a different idea on the faction war's resolution. I think

This How can we remedy this, together? - #191 by Droité-tanaris got me thinking.

So, I have an idea that may I don’t see talked about when it comes to how this war is resolved. I don’t think it hits every point, more the points of:

-Horde leadership

-Horde and alliance relations

What I would like to see, in a likely unpopular nutshell, is Sylvanas remains alive and warchief and the war hits a stalemate. That’s the TL;DR. I’ve always felt that the game world was more interesting when the factions were at odds, if not at full war.

Let’s go into detail. First, Sylvanas staying alive and how is that going to go over well with the horde, especially the leadership? I’ve always thought Sylvanas’ problem is what motivates her, as in her fear of death and going back to hell; as well as how secretive she is about it (though understandably). So (1) that which drives her is her fear of going back to hell, but also WHY she is going when she dies. Up to this point from what I can discern she believes she is going there because she was made undead and irredeemable. It is never overtly stated (that I know of) but that just feels to me like how she sees it. So, what if she gets a different idea? Maybe a racial leader comes to her, let’s let Ji Firepaw do it in this example because he never gets to do anything that I’ve seen (I’m on the Alliance side, so that could be why). He comes before her and questions her actions, and offers some of the Pandarian seeing water or whatever it is called, so that she can reflect on what drives her. She does, either before or after throwing him out. The end result is she realizes that MAYBE she’s not going to hell for being undead, MAYBE she’s going to hell for all of the wicked things she has done since she has been a free willed undead. She doesn’t have to fully buy into it, just let the idea get some solid traction. This also plays into the idea of free will from Before the Storm. But now there is a chance that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that she can redeem herself; not in the eyes of the Alliance, that’s not going to happen, but on a cosmic scale maybe she can tip the scales over time. The important thing is that realization, however she comes to it.

This realization will maybe realign her ever so slightly. She’ll still do bad things, but now the weight of those things is something she feels. She burned Teldrasil, she now feels regret. Maybe for the people who died, maybe that it didn’t fully work the way she had hoped and so the Horde is embroiled in a war that is not going so well now. But, this realization will change how she perceives the other horde leaders. Baine, and more importantly, Saurfang. She goes to wherever she has Baine locked up and has a good long talk with him, especially about what had driven her to this point. Baine is enough of a “turn the other cheek” guy that this brings him new understanding. She, and this is important, refuse to say that using Derek would have been a mistake, but will admit that it was a burden for her to bear. She will still do whatever it takes to protect the horde, because now the horde is her chance at redemption. Leading and protecting its people, as she protected the people of Silvermoon before death, is how she plans to tip those cosmic scales.

And keep in mind, this does not have to be a correct belief, she just has to believe it. She brings Baine on as an advisor, a way to balance the horror she is willing to bring with what the horde will take. Nathanos on one side supporting her, Baine on the other restraining her. Baine’s backing, free of threat, helps bring the other leaders back in, and eventually the people. Maybe some version of what she saw when she died is shared to make it more understandable, and make what she risks for the Horde more clear. Other leaders would say “My life for the horde!” She offers her soul.

So, all this is great, but we still have Saurfang out there looking to off her, and a royally pissed Alliance that will not settle for anything short of her removed from power and from the land of the living. Now what?

Saurfang organizes a resistance, like in MoP. Hear me out. But he tells Anduin in no uncertain terms that this is a Horde matter, and the Alliance is not to interfere. He then leads his rebels against Sylvanas. In Orgrimar if we must, or somewhere else, not terribly important. The Alliance, Anduin included, does not belive that Saurfang can displace her with his small force, and it would be militarily stupid not to take advantage of this attack. So, they attack at the same time, with Anduin’s blessing. Maybe with him leading.

This is seen as a betrayal by the rebel forces who now have to fight (in their mind) Horde brothers who have been lead astray and treacherous Alliance forces that seek to destroy the horde. And they very well might, Jaina’s advise of “dismantle the Horde” being remembered by both sides (you know someone on the horde side heard her).

The confrontation could go like this. After some fighting, Saurfang faces Sylvanas and is defeated. She does not kill him. Maybe she gives an abridged version of her personal revelation, but at the end, she points out that the Horde will not survive another Alliance intervention like the one that led to Garrosh’s fall. Saurfang is convinced, his honor compelling him to fight “For the Horde!” and he stands against the Alliance incursion. He buys the time for the other Horde leaders to escape, and earns his “honorable death.” Yep, in this scenario Saurfang dies. Maybe he decries Anduin for his treachery. Anduin feels really bad about killing him, but knows that this was a shot that had to be taken for the Alliance.

Now the horde is reunited under a less crazy Sylvanas, and the Alliance will not make peace with Sylvanas in power. Enter Old Gods, Void Lords, and all the other stuff that shunts the conflict to the side. They can’t work together, but they both shift focus.

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In order for you to remedy Sylvie’s fear of her own afterlife, you would either dilute it (through, presumably, proving that its wrong … and that her “seeing the world as it really is” is equally misguided). Or … you need to give her a stronger motivation than self-preservation (and the extreme pragmatism that comes with it). The prior option would have to revolve some twist in her experience of her afterlife (we’ve already seen two high-profile souls stolen from their supposed destination, its not impossible that Sylvanas is the victim of the same process). The latter … I honestly haven’t a clue what could motivate miss “pragmatic” more than keeping herself out of hell.

I am of the mind that shoving a Warchief Title (one that she didn’t want, mind you) in front of her name does not change the core of her character (and does not change how utterly ambiguous her relationship with her Forsaken is; let alone the Horde as a whole). She has a long history of using others a mere tools for personal objectives; then discarding them once she’s done. The Horde also was nothing more than an “Alliance of Convenience” for her not so long ago; and tbh … could very well still be even now (she just has more control atm). Her secretive nature (and unknown “true objectives” we KNOW she has) make this issue even hazier.

Then … there is Teldrassil. I would be shocked if the Horde makes it out of this situation after that mess, I cannot fathom a method for Sylvanas to make it out (while also retaining power within the Horde; and I don’t just mean as Warchief, I mean as the Forsaken’s leader either). She (with a knee-jerk response) cremated thousands alive in a giant tree … to create a wound that she believed would destroy the Kaldorei nation (seriously, read “A Good War”, that was her literal intent … regardless of the plan she told Saurfang). She also has several times dreamed of burning SW to the ground; slaughtering its populous; and raising them into her Forsaken. Thats … wow.

Honestly, I don’t see a means for Sylvanas to come out of this expansion as a member of the Horde. I don’t think she’ll lose both of her remaining lives … but she can’t remain a part of this faction (we’re already screwed enough without trying to harbor and protect that psychopath). Not to mention … she is an absolutely atrocious representative of MOST of the Horde faction; regardless of her true intent.

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It’s an interesting scenario you’ve written. It still comes at the cost of a Horde character, which sucks but I think we’ve all come to be at peace with that at this point.

I personally like it, especially your use of Ji. Perhaps some sort of Jinyu ritual he picked up during the Pandaria or Monk Hall campaign. Seems up their ally.

However, I say that as a Horde player who is desperate to get out of this with as little damage to our narrative as possible. I feel the Alliance gets an EXTREMELY raw deal out of this.

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While I really enjoyed your idea and thought it was interesting, I disagree here, and it ruins the rest of the concept for me.

While this might have been true once, now her core problem is that her actions are so unforgivable that no realistic character development is going to convince anyone who hates her now to forgive her, both on the playerbase and in-game. No magic personal revelation is going to convince Baine to get over Derek, Saurfang to get over Teldrassil, or the players to get over…everything Droité said.

And without that support, her position’s untenable on both meta and story-world levels.

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That’s because you can only see things a good writer would. Bad writers have far more options!

Have you forgotten that DRAENOR IS FREEEEEEE?

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I’d say have Sylvanas get Resurrected. Living Sylvanas. Become the Ranger-General of Silvermoon again. Green eyes and everything. Steps down as Warchief willingly after becoming living again.

As long as she reacts in horror to what she did. It would make more sense for her to just be a ranger though, as that position is filled.

I mean, yeah, unless Halduron died, the position is filled. Not sure I’d mind if he bit it. He hasn’t done too much of note. Sylvanas could probably bring back the Ranger thematic to the Blood Elves, make it prominent again. Granted I’m biased in the suggestion anyways. I just want the Windrunner Sisters to each belong to a specific group of Thalassians.

Alleria - Void Elves
Vereesa - High Elves
Sylvanas - Blood Elves

But yeah, I’d like to think being brought back to life might be one of the most severe forms of punishment that could be inflicted upon Sylvanas right now. To view all of her actions through a lens that is not compromised by the inability to feel positive emotions, would no doubt be an intense and agonizing experience, especially when she realizes she’s been walking in Arthas’ footsteps for some time now.

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The Forsaken would also benefit from leadership that actually cares about them and wants more for them than “death to the living”, if they intend to not kill her off.

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Of course we are it’s a faction conflict.

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Why not have her have gold eyes instead of fel green?

I would see golden eye or blue eye depending on how she is being resurrected. If its with a powerfull light magic that corrupt her eye it would be golden but if it with a new kind of magic that ‘‘undo’’ you undead state than it would go back to being blue.

Funny how high elf fan claim that we dont know our lore but think that a blood elf would have green eye even if he never ever was close to using fel energy.

Honestly never understood why she went to hell in the first place, died defensing her people, helped defeat the lich king.

Dunno why it went down like that.

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looks at hillsbrad, silverpine, and development of the plague

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That was before that though?

Plague was during but was for a good cause.

Talking about the vanilla version

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We only need look at Baine’s arrest to see how the Horde is feeling.

The Racial Leaders are leaders. But we must remember they are not monolithic examples of their race. While Posters might glean a looming civil war from words of leaders - we see members of nearly every Horde race present. Even Mulgore Tauren are in the audience.

Baine is arrested by a cadre of Horde troops of various races. Compare that to Garrosh, where Orcs were his chosen and loyal followers.

I think there is a lesson in much of this. The Horde in game as well as its player base are varied beyond simple classification. You have Orcs like Geyarah and you have Orcs like Saurfang. You have Forsaken like Voss and you have Forsaken like… most of the other Forsaken NPCs. You have Blood Elves like Lorthemar, Liadrin, Rommath, and Valeera - all starkly different with different senses of the greater good.

While the Alliance is simple and clear, sometimes, the chaos of the Horde can be interesting.

That is World of Warcraft, indeed.

Or as Sylvanas would say: “This is war.”

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she didnt, when she first died to arthas she went to a more peaceful paradise, it was only after she committed suicide as the banshee queen after arthas died did she go to hell, by that point she was already a bad egg

I just don’t see Sylvanas wanting much to do with the Light. I could see her honestly sucking down a Fel Crystal to get those green eyes, a symbolic gesture to show solidarity with the Sin’dorei. Sin’dorei by deed, not just word.

I know the lore, thank you. I explained above why I’d prefer green over other options.

No you just explained more how you dont know lore. Blood elf aren’t defined by green eye. In fact some of them now have golden eye. If you thing that having green eye is symbolic for them, you should stop learning only alliance high elf lore and start learning horde high elf lore too.