Holy cow you just put this into perfect perspective on why I hate this trope.
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Friendly reminder: Odyn was absolutely correct about the dragons.
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Helya objected to enslaving Vrykul to become Valkyr and threatened to crash the Halls of Valor to the ground and thus in order to save himself Odyn killed and enslaved Helya.
I’m sure that if Odyn didn’t turn Helya into a Valkyr when he slew her she would have upon respawning in the Realms of Order sent a message to the Titans resulting in them coming back and killing Odyn without hearing his side of the story(a side of the story which Aman’Thul might have agreed with considering it’s more Orderly than Tyr’s plan)!
I will say that, Odyn and Tyr had a different view on them, it is actually interesting how Tyr reacted to the fact that the dragons will eventually be corrupted, and he bascially said that : Yes they not perfect, but they have what needed to succed in the end and wont disappoint him.
Odyn althought being right that they are corruprible and were eventually corrupted was still wrong to not put his lot into them.
Also he was kind of an hypocrite considering he used dragons himself…
Never got Odyn hate, still can’t relate to it. Even the worst things he did feel more like tragic, misguided failures rather than acts of malice. He’s an idiot at worst.
I also don’t believe he “enslaved” the Storm Drakes at all. From everything we’ve seen, they have plenty of freedom and actually respect Odyn. The only thing we ever hear them complain about is not being allowed to go to the Dragon Isles. Because of Odyn’s petty (though admittedly understandable) grudge with the dragons.
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He acted as a propahandist for the Titans, hiding the advancements of the Black Empire in order to make all mortals think the Old Gods were more evil than they actually were.
That dosent change that he contradicted himself, he blamed other keepers to put their trust in the dragons and said they were inferiors and could fall under corruption…but he still used them himself ><
Oh yeah, he kept knowledge of the Old Gods, Shadowlands and Burning Legion away from mortals because he thought their tiny brains couldn’t handle it.
He was 100% correct, because every single bad thing that’s happened in WoW was caused by a mortal meddling with those things. Gul’Dan with the Legion, Cho’gall with the Old Gods, and Slyvanas with the Shadowlands. All of them caused untold destruction and misery. Gul’Dan especially, considering he destroyed an entire world, the exact kind of thing the titans built the keepers to prevent.
So forgive me if I’m not exactly sympathetic to the “he kept knowledge from us!” crowd. Even if the vast majority of mortalkind can handle that information, all it took was a small handful of people to misuse them to cause the greatest disasters in Warcraft’s history.
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You know, you’d have better weight into your argument if you didn’t open up with this attitude. You make people not want to engage with you on a discussion level because you’re coming in with a load of animus on your shoulder.
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I came in with it because it got tossed on me by others.
Or maybe it’s just residue from the 5 billion difference currencies Shadowlands buried me in.
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Fact still remains: Alexstrasza is the only dragon that didn’t become an existential threat, and even she made decisions that still produced an existential threat in the Primal Incarnates. Also, Tyr’s “faith in Dragonkind” involved Titan/Order eugenics. Not that Odyn is above that sort of thing himself, but I get the impression they want us to think of Odyn as singularly misguided/bad while accidentally stumbling into the opposite.
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We actually dont know if the beings of Orders actually return to the realm of Order when they die or anything for that matter.
Hum, not 100% of the things, for example you mentioned Loken earlier, he was not a mortal, and he caused quite the troubles.
Well, he is not wrong, but its not like he is right either to put so much trust on the keepers and titan-forged, because they also got corrupted.
Thats the thing, i mean, no offense really, but you really feel like an Odyn die hard supporter. 
I fiind interesting that you blame that on SL, to me Helya was most relevant in Legion, here part in SL was minor especially regarding her “paste”
Well, Tyr was confident that the dragons will keep the duty of protecting the world for the keepers if anything bad happens, and it happenned with Ulduar being controled by Yogg because of Loken, and during that moment the dragons kept the boat going even if the keepers were silent.
And, you say that, only Alex did not fall to corruption, but even if Malygos and Ysera and also Deathwing were corrupted, it is still the dragons who fixed that problem and it is again dragons who kept the task going, because there was new Aspects chosens which were also dragons.
So in fact, ultimatly, Tyr was kinda right over Odyn, because, Odyn said, they are not trustworthy because they can be corrupted : which is half true, yes they can be corrupted and they were, but he was wrong in thinking that was the reason to not trust them.
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Helya is a victim of a bad situation because Odyn was power hungry.
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They caused the problems they were supposed to exist to defend from.
It was the mortal races (us) who fixed their problems.
We are still dealing with Neltharion’s schemes. He is the reason Xal’atath has a device that allows her to travel the world slurping up Arcane/Void. And he is half the reason (Murozond being the other) Galakrond’s hunger now exists in said battery.
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Nethalarion and Murozond could be laid directly at the feet of the Titans themselves. For starters not mentioning the old gods buried under the ground and trying to protect Nethalarion from said whispers and not warning Nozdormu that his future self will cause the end of the world
You mean just like Loken? So then what? Keepers failed as much as the dragons then…so Odyn still wrong.
We HELPED to fix their problems, because, good luck going in past without Nozdormu to recover the Dragon Soul without the dragons >< you are just being dishonest here.
How…and then, who created Galakrond? You know it? Seems like it was the keepers!!! Yes!!! They are the origin of that whole problem.
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- My point isn’t Keepers Good, Dragons Bad—they’re both awful and corruption prone.
- No dragons = no Neltharion = no Deathwing = no Dragon Soul.
- Mortals have to solve every mess the dragons have a hand in.
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and all keepers fel to the old gods and had to be saved by the mortals too. Odyn was a huge jerkface who enslaved the Val’kyr after copying the Kyrians for his private army who has done nothing so far to keep Azeroth save but being there to show off his personal glory.
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Dude, we get it you wanted to talk about your helya obsessions. Why try and veil that intent behind some weird excuse of a meme or making up some weird claim about helya no one ever thought off or cared enough to think off. If we had you wouldn’t have needed the whole lore dictionary response man. We’d already have known it. I’m not hating on the lore talk but why the whole cherade?
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Well your point was originally to say “Odyn was right about the dragons”
I just wanted to add some nuancing to that statement.
That game of “whos the responsible” is bit silly i could also say :
No Keepers, No Galakrongs, No dragons aspect, no Neltharion etc etc
Exactly.
Also, Tyr was right to put his lot in the Dragons as it was shown : Tyr trusted the dragons to res him : and they did, if not for the dragons, he would still be dead by Loken betrayal and Loken’s betrayal had nothing to do with the dragons.
Also about Odyn…considering the TITANS themselves were ok to bless the dragons : Odyn bascially was mad about a decisions of his own higher ups ><