Helya is Trash

A lot of posters here (I’m convinced mostly trolls) keep praising Helya like she’s the ultimate unsung hero of Warcraft, a poor innocent cinnamon roll that never did anything, and basically defend everything she does as good and justified based on her sad backstory.

I know for people who are trolling, no argument will change anything because they don’t even believe what they’re saying. But for the few well-meaning people who fell for the meme, I hope this post disabuses you of the notion that Helya is anything but a hateful, selfish villain who is everything she claims to hate.

Let’s start with her tragic backstory, because it’s the only “good” thing about her. Then I’ll explain why it doesn’t matter.

Helya was Odyn’s adopted daughter, and at some point the two apparently got along alright. That all changed when Odyn fell out with the other Keepers, angry that they gave the Dragons power and authority, with the apparent blessing of the Titans themselves. He quit as his job as Prime Desginate and went into seclusion, deciding to build his own private army to serve as a “superior” defensive force for Azeroth. Helya was apparently all in on this as well, since she’s the one who originally created Skyhold by ripping off a piece of Ulduar. Things seemed peachy until Odyn decided he wanted his own Val’kyr to revive the slain warriors of the Shadowlands to fight for him. But nobody volunteered, so Odyn started threatening to make them become Val’Kyr. This enraged Helya, who saw this as an unjust act of indentured servitude, while Odyn was stubbornly convinced what he was going was for the “greater good” of Azeroth, and to defy him was to assure the world’s destruction. Though more cynical folks (including and especially Helya herself) would argue this was more about Odyn desperately trying to retain some fraction of the control and authority he lost after he fell out with the Keepers. The argument escalated and, in a fit of rage, Odyn struck down Helya and revived her as the first Val’kyr. She apparently still had free will because she “habored resentment” towards him afterwards, and for good reason because it’s a pretty terrible thing to do.

Then, Loken came along and started working with Helya. Keep in mind, Loken is an evil and malicious Keeper who was working with the Old Gods, and did everything he could to turn them against each other and take over, so any time his influence is involved, things get very fishy. Together two turned Skyhold into a prison, overthrew Odyn, freed the remaining Val’kyr who didn’t wish to serve Odyn (either some remained or new ones were made, and for the most part they seem quite free and even disagree with Odyn and act against him if they don’t believe he’s right) and Helya gained a new realm all to herself, Helheim, where her and her fellow Val’Kyr were totally free of Odyn.

And if Helya actually were the sweet and soft cinnamon roll that her fanboys claim she is, this is where the story would end, a triumphant and happy ending! Except the story keeps going, and after this point, Helya never does a single decent thing for anyone ever again.

Fuming with bitterness and hatred, Helya’s body and realm warp into a twisted, demonic form. She is completely free of Odyn at this point, doesn’t have to follow any of his orders and her mind is her own (barring the possibility of Old God corruption but nothing is concrete on that yet) and what does she do with her newfound power and freedom? She starts KIDNAPPING PEOPLE and BRAINWASHING THEM TO BE HER SLAVES. Her entire realm becomes a nightmarish hellworld where people are tortured, killed and forced to fight for her amusement. Her victims are trapped in an endless loop of killing each other, getting tortured and doing her bidding.

In other words, everything she ever claimed to hate about Skyhold, except a million times worse. People actually enjoy being in Skyhold. It’s a fun place. Nobody makes you fight, you fight when you want to or you have to defend it. Nobody gets tortured, and everybody gets to eat, drink and party as much as they like. Helheim is a place of neverending misery and pain with no joy or mirth to be found anywhere. Helya willfully and happily inflicts this pain and suffering on people for her own power and amusement. And even though she defeated Odyn, trapped him for ten thousand years and one, her heart is so filled with hateful, bitter resentment that she spends centuries coming up with harebrained schemes to punish him and his followers even more. She becomes so consumed with revenge that she starts using innocent souls as weapons and slaves in a neverending war to get back at her dad, who she has more in common with than differences from.

The core difference between Helya and Odyn is that Odyn, at best, has noble intentions and extreme methods. At worst, Odyn wants a personal bro-club that he gets to make all the rules for. Helya does nothing for anyone but herself, and does horrible things to everyone around her out of sadistic hate, with no noble purpose in mind.

She also teamed up with the Jailer, but I gotta tell 'you, talking about Shadowlands lore feels like talking about the worst and most boring WoW fanfic ever written so I’m not going to do a deep dive into it. I’ll just sum it up as “she worked with the Super Devil in Super Hell to destroy all of existence just because she wanted to be in the inner circle when he took over.”

So overall: no, Helya isn’t a poor, innoncent victim. She’s an absolute monster. Having a sympathetic backstory doesn’t absolve you of all the horrible things you do afterwards. It doesn’t make it okay for you to be evil, abusive and tyrannical and it doesn’t mean you’re a good person. She’s a morally reprehensible, evil, selfish, self-driving megalomaniac who is so filled with hate and greed that it literally turned her into a demon. She has zero remorse for anything she’s done and deserves no sympathy or praise whatsoever. If she ever gets a redemption arc, it will take a LOT to make up for the thousands of years she spent being a horrible person.

Being a victim of trauma doesn’t give you the right to inflict trauma on others.

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This isn’t anything new. You might as well start lecturing people about how evil Sylvanas was from a Watsonian perspective. We all know. I, and others, just the want the characters to be better written and not turn into genocidal maniacs.

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Right when i saw the title of that thread, i knew who was behind it.

I know that we had a disagreement regarding Helya, but i am not a troll i can assure, but well, i am not really concerned, since i dont exactly defend Helya.

Thats not exactly true thought, Loken was not always Malicious keeper, and well, he was smart, smart enough to use Helya vengeance to his advantage.

All in all, the story of Odyn being trapped just come up Odyn sabotaging himself, Odyn literally planted the seeds for hiw own downfall by being a selfish jerk.

He broke away from the other keepers, which isolated himself, and then wronged the only person that was still on his side.

I do find funny you would not do some kind of long thread about Odyn being a complete idiot, because he really did got karma.

Now look at that warrior player enjoying to play cheap vallhallah and being like “ho but its a fun place!!!” Yeah, fun place for the strong…the weak however?

I really dont like when people compare Helya and Sylvanas, Helya actually never denied being “evil” or never said like “ho but i am a victim” i dare yu to find me any evidences that she did that. Sylvanas did use her trauma as an excuses for doing what she did, Helya did not.

You are actually lying here (what a surprise from an Odyn surpporter, since himself lies a lot!)

The exact part is :

“Seeing Helya’s disobedience as a threat to his plans, Odyn shattered her physical form, twisted her spirit into the first Val’kyr, and ordered her to begin ferrying vrykul souls from the Shadowlands as well as transform other unwilling vrykul into Val’kyr.”

Odyn TWISTED her spirit into a Val’kyr, and thats where you are completly being wrong and a bit like “ho but why she so evil” because you think having your own spirit TWISTED wont mess up your mind at some point?

Well yes it will, Helya got evil because her spirit and mind were completly mesed up by Odyn himself, if you are like “ho but she had free will because this and that”, the term “twisted” means what it means, Helya was deeply changed by the experience.

So again, Odyn is to blame for her being “evil”

Literally wrong, chronnicles clearly states : “After the corrupted keeper Loken had restored Helya’s free will”

Having habored resentment” is not a proof for having free will as we saw with many characters, such as Sylvanas which in war3 says she hate Arthas even if she was under his domination and had no free will at that moment. (It as before she broke free)

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So does Lougo have an issue with keeping discussions within their own threads? Because he did this with a Samuro thread too.

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idk what you’re talking about because this thread is literally just for the discussion of Helya.

It’s better to give some topics their own threads rather than derailing an existing one, or having the discussion get buried.

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Well, I don’t think Helya has to spell it out for it to be comparable. She still is an example of someone with trauma becoming evil.

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So like Arthas then? But will i bring up that arthas is like sylvanas? Well not really because its not very relevant.

Um, well, people make that comparison that all the time.

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Hey Liangi, I read your post and I don’t quite think you’re a troll anymore, so I’ll read a good faith reply in a little while. Thanks for your input even though I don’t agree.

Well, if it all comes to “character got trauma and became evil” i think its kinda easy =p

Big difference is that Sylvanas used it time and time again to jusitify her motives, while Helya did not do that, she is even (in legion) kinda like “yeah i am evil”

While Sylvanas is like “no i do for greater good!!! i am for justice!!!” Helya never denied that she do it out of hatred for Odyn.

Which is to me a significant difference between a character that is hypocrit and one being honest, and yes, she is evil, but you can be honest and still do bad stuff, and i rather support somebody who is at least not lying to self.

I knew that, you considered me as such, and i mean, i am not, and again, i am not entirely concerned by your accusation, as i dont deny what Helya is doing is bad.

Well, I was just making the comparison because Sylvanas and Helya are both characters people that have defenders and loyalists, and are both characters that people have argued about ad nauseum about whether they’re good or evil in-universe.

I feel the latter is missing the point, however. They’re both characters that, in-universe, a reasonable person would consider evil. My criticism is that they should’ve been written better. “Abuse victim becomes abuser” is bad.

And again, I don’t think whether Helya spells it out is the point.

Nobody should be thinking in-universe about this story. Blizzard has zero coherent vision.

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Why is there a sudden influx of confrontational people who can’t seem to register that a character can start out with understandable motivations but then also go way too far and be an enemy when they stand in the way of a larger goal?

Did one of the more unhinged lore discords implode or something?

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I have literally been wondering this for weeks now! Thank you for letting me know I’m not alone.

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This forum has reached that point where you will drive yourself cray cray looking for a sensible coherent answer :dracthyr_nod:

But yeah, I’m guessing one of the more unhinged lore discords imploded again.

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I did not know that there was a “big amount” of people that would defend Helya, to me she always felt like very secondary and despite her having some oppenings to have her on the sides of the heroes, Blizzard never really did bring it up out of Chronnicles which is the only place where it is clearly stated how wronged she was by Odyn.

It was always something that bugged me in Legion, when you read chronnicles v1 before Legion, you feeling like Odyn will be presented more like a neutral or even evil dude and Helya less “monolithic” but in game it was very differently presented. Like Odyn is your best bro and Helya just nuts.

Can you elaborate?

And we did help a big amount of characters that were very shady and not really “doing good” i mean, the only fact we will help the goblins of the cartles in next patch should be a good reason to pull some kind of “no no!” but seems like people are okay with it.

Former employee Eric Covington made tweets a while ago that quest designers aren’t required to listen to historians and basically just make up anything they want as they go.

Those tweets are deleted but April Copeland and others confirmed them.

So people need to stop saying stuff like “Omg, a quest from years ago confirmed that this one minor detail is canon beyond a shadow of a doubt!!!” It’s not necessarily true.

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Oh yes i remember that one, it was pretty disappointing, when you consider how impactful quests are in the overall lore of an expac.

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Good talk then!

I will say, I’m not opposed to Helya getting some kind of redemption arc. I must stress: redemption arc. Not a validation arc where she’s proven right and is rewarded for it while all the wrong things she did gets swept under the rug.

You could also just, y’know, make the whole thing Loken’s fault. I’m not entirely opposed to that.

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I did think the same with Sylvanas, now before i go further, i want to say that, originally when SL started and the questions of what will happen to Sylvanas came about, i was of those who wanted here to pay, simply because, in term of the “message” you want to give with your narrative, having here simply getting away was very bad message to give, then they came with the “split soul” thing which i found pretty cheap excuse…

Despite all this, well she did get judged, she did somewhat pay, not as much as i wanted, but “still” got something.

For Helya, i agree with you, i dont want to have some kind of validation for her when she is like “ho you see i was right to be a bad person” its just so silly message again to give…

When it comes to redemption for her, i think she could have it, but it must again be done properly, as i said, i think the fact her spirit got twisted could be an idea to explain, not excuse but epxlain why she went so nuts.

It reminds me of some peoples always wondering why she had old god looking necklace, you could maybe say that Loken tricked her into giving her that necklace and it had effect on her maybe, i am just proposing something “easy” .

But yeah, considering how Loken manipulated everyone, he could have just tricked Helya too.