<HEALTHY> Cata PvP Changes

Hello everyone.

As always when I post, this will be a long winded post, but I will add a TL:DR, with an in depth explanation after to describe why I would like to see these changes in cata.

<Skip if too long, didn’t read>
Also, since some people do care about this, i have achieved 2655 rating in the past(This toon), 2400 currently in Wrath classic (Alphoncejr) and have gotten the duelist title (top 3%) atleast once, in almost every expansion. Some of these changes do not effect me at all, like removing or lowering the rating requirement on gear, as i will always get it, if i should desire so.

TL:DR

1. Introduce Catch up cap similar to that of Warlord of Draenor.

2. Reduce the rating requirement of the Tier 2 elite weapon to 1600 (or 0) from 2200.

3. Keep the same rating requirements for the cosmetic Tier 2 elite armor.

4. Fix the looking for group finder to allow arena specific listing, as well as introduce alliance and horde arena q’ing.

As it stands right now, the biggest issue in my opinion is the population regarding WoW arena. It’s no surprise, as it’s always been small, but the population has never been this small. There are roughly under 30,000 players in the 3v3 bracket. With such a small population, this allows some teams to face the same team over and over and over again even at low ratings of 2,000.

It is my speculation that in order to increase the population pool, there needs to be some changes that won’t fundamentally ruin the game, or destroy what it is inherently about, but rather help alleviate some of the barriers that are no longer a viable option considering the pool of players is close to non-existent.

Point One
The first, and again, in my opinion, the biggest step to help players participate in arena, and maybe even Rated BattleGrounds at this point, is to allow players to miss a week or two without severe punishment.

I don’t think the average player minds that they have to do arena to get arena points, or in cataclysm, conquest points. However, sometimes real life happens, and people can miss a week. Sometimes two. As well if someone wants to play alts, sometimes the alt comes into the picture later.

With the reintroduction of the WoD catch up cap, this will help reduce burnout from playing every week. This will help people try alts, as well. The reason why this is important is because once people feel like they are falling behind, people tend to quit. The struggle to win arenas is already a big barrier if you start late or a new alt. Compounding that with the fact that you are artificially kept from obtaining gear since it’s locked to a weekly grind makes even trying once behind not worth the time or effort.

For those who are unaware of how WoD Catch up cap worked, i’ll to my best to break it down to the best of my memory.

Week 1 would have an overall cap of I believe 1650. With 300 of that having to be obtained by running RBGs. If you missed week 1, the second week would have an overall cap of 2650. So every week, you were guaranteed 1000 points added to the catch up cap, assuming you missed playing that week, or didn’t get the full cap. If you did manage to cap, then you would not receive that additional 1000 points to earn.

It was obviously more impactful to cap every week. 1650 points is a lot more than just a measly 1000 points, comparatively speaking. However, after so many weeks missed, it was reasonable to actually get geared, as well as to compete with everyone else. This meant that an alt coming late, or someone who had to take a break, or returning at a later time, would still have to arena to earn the points, but also had a chance to compete for titles by time the season ended. They were not permanently behind until the next season started.

Point two.
PvP is fundamentally different from PvE. This means that PvP has different problems from PvE. This means that the solutions for PvP are most likely going to be different than PvE solutions.

Everyone understands that in an MMO, you must grind. There’s no way around it. I’m personally someone who thinks there should absolutely be no grinding to do PvP, but that hasn’t come true once in the time i’ve played this game on and off since ‘09. So i understand that the players, and community at large, agree almost unanimously, that there must be a grind.

With that said, rating requirements are a bit different than grinding. Rating requirements on gear allows good players to get better gear, and then play against average or new players in a different arena bracket or BGs with not only a skill advantage, but also a gear advantage.

This causes a rift between the haves, and the have nots. The have nots experience a wide discrepancy of game play. Sometimes the difference in stats is why you might die in a cheap shot, kidney shot, smoke bomb combo without trinket, where someone who has more stats from their t2 weapon might have the extra resilience, and stamina to survive.

So lowering the requirements does two things. It allows more of the player pool to achieve these weapons, and gives them a goal to look forward to.

It also allows there to be less of a gear discrepancy in general, and makes newer or average players a chance to compete since 1600 is a reasonable rank. I would argue 1600 is probably the rank of gold in overwatch, or starcraft. With a little patience and dedication, anyone can achieve this rank.

Point 3
As far as the 2200 tier 2 elite armor, since it’s purely cosmetic, it’s fine for it to remain at 2200. This allows players who have played the game, gotten alright at the game a goal as well. Doing the same thing as wrath tabards do.

There’s a lot of players, like myself, who played wrath mostly just for the tabards alone. Cosmetics are cool, fun, and a good reason for a lot of players to play.

Point 4
The LFG tool is just awful. Terrible. One of the worst things I’ve seen in a while that was supposed to help. Seriously, it’s beyond garbage. I really don’t understand how it could get this bad. Whoever did the rework of it clearly doesn’t care about the player base.

There’s no arena section. You can not see what classes are in a group, unless you do a role select, and because that part is never explained to people, an overwhelming majority of people are unaware, too lazy, or don’t care to do that. As well as because the classic community is so small, alliance and horde should be able to que arena’s with each other.

We already have Alliance vs Alliance and horde vs horde BGs. Allow the few of us arena players to actually play the game. Finding people is a real nightmare because we simply do not have the tools to do so.

I firmly believe that if some, hopefully all changes were implemented in cata, we would see more people playing the game. I would love to try playing resto shaman or disc priest as an alt, but if i miss one week, i might as well stop playing those alts all entirely cause i’m just trying to play for fun, on as close to an even playing field as possible, with random and possibly new future friends. But right now, it’s hard to find people to play with, and it’s pointless to play alts if i didn’t invest in them literally weekly.

Edit: They should also update dalaran sewers to have stairs on all 4 corners, as well as blades edge having ramps in the middle like it is on retail.

As it stands right now, the maps are terribly one sided for certain comps and play a greater impact on the outcome of the game than what they should be allowed to do.

4 Likes

no changes

literally all their arena changes have been negative besides the sewer walljump “fix” which took almost a year to implement
group finder one is good though

1 Like

What? Was was so terrible about making arena teams cross realms so that the remaining 20 pvpers scattered across 10 servers could finally team up.

What was so terrible introducing a’la merc mode (same faction pvp) when Horde were facing with 40+ minutes of queue times due to lack of alliance participation.

They already said cata with some changes. So that’s all i’m going to respond regarding your post.

Making arena cross realm is great.

The tool in which enables us to do so is terribly designed. Great idea, terrible execution. It needs to be worked on, or completely revamped.

Edit: Didn’t realize you were responding to the other guy ><

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Yeah, I was replying to that braindead alt of a troll who has #nochanges approach on repeat like a broken record.

In terms of pvp cata was the strongest expansion for Alliance, due to the strength of the human racial. If anything it will be Ally with the long queue times, from Firelands on at least…

i would enjoy more rewards like enchants
pushing for gladiator at this point in my life is just unrealistic since the playerbase technical level have grown so much to a point that not only did i decrease my pvp level from being more casual than i was back in our good ol wod days, but the field is much harder right now
long story short, once i get my rewards i just dip out cause theres no reason to queue into much more geared and better players and i assure you this happens to a lot more veterans like me

some extra goals could keep me more motivated.
maybe 2400 weapon enchant? a non flying 2600 mount? maybe a skeleton steed idk

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First off, they need to add more incentives for non glads. Cosmetics and dropping the ridiculous rating requirements save for maybe a weapon and tabard are a good start. Right now the community of people who regularly get glad is like less than 100 people. How do you expect to sustain a community that relies solely on the prestige of being in the top 0.5%? Maybe that was a possibility when WOW was one of if not the most popular game in the world and one of the most popular esports, but that’s not the case anymore. They need to update the pvp experience to reflect 2024 gaming preferences.

One effortless fix would be to restrict title spots to Bnet accounts, meaning that each player is counted once on the ladder for all of their alts. The higher you get, the greater the share of title spots are top players and their alts hogging a significant portion of the spots. I believe that this is a retail system that should be able to be ported over.

Time and time again, classic players have streamlined their gaming experience to get the most reward out of their time spent. What does arena offer to the vast, vast majority of players for the hundreds of hours they devote to playing each season? Some gear that is only good for that specific purpose? We need major incentives to keep the game alive.

For the competitive players, we also need balance changes. One of the leading frustrations people have with wrath and why there’s been a precipitous drop off is the fact that the game is pretty much solved and is essentially a rerun of the Wrath private servers with some minor differences. Wrath is a great starting point but has been picked apart and refined to the point now where it’s a very formulaic and static meta. Cata will echo that, even though it’s a much less explored expansion.

i would agree with everything you said except the bnet part
maybe spec, i would agree if it was spec. seeing Vellido, notvellido,vellidotwo, odillev and lilvel taking 5 r1 spots being the same class is super lame. he is not achieving anything other than gatekeeping titlets to other ppl
but if a guy manages to pull a gladiator on a lets say warrior and a hunter he represents 2 different spots entirely

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The changes needed to be done in classic, crusade, and wrath. It’s all too little too late with cataclysm. The ship has sailed, or rather, been sunk.

Highly agreed.

The class and spec aren’t relevant to the amount of spots though. They still get their titles on all their characters they have in range under the single counting system.

Yes. The removal of teams allowed it to be much more easy to boost and win trade making it 10x more difficult for any of those of us who are legit to get what we want in there, they borked the mmr/cr system to the point to where they had to come in and artificially mess with the ratings.

And they are likely removing 5v5s in Cata as well as the Arena Master title.

I don’t know if we can say that removing teams has been a bad thing.

People are in my experience a bit more likely to queue with more people which is a net positive. Obviously you have a lot who are guarded about their mmr though and won’t queue with those lower than them, but overall the time invested seems lower to repair your mmr under the current system.

Removing teams also works against boosts by eliminating the +100 injections that plagued the glad range at end of season in TBC. People would pay top players like Snutz to steamroll a few last minute games in a bracket he wasn’t contesting and push them their team rating into glad range and as long as their personal rating was within 100 points of the team rating they would get titles. This was iirc like up to 50% of titles in season 4.

You are partially correct about that statement. I remember once when we had one of our teams, a player had to quit WoW as he was moving. And him being on our team so near to the end of the season that meant teams were locked in at that point, we could not replace him so had one empty spot and one less person to play with. That is the only downside to having teams, if only one team member has an issue, it effects everyone. And if it is early on in the season when we still had teams, then you had to play with that person non stop just to get their CR up to what yours was that way you had an MMR capable of getting a decant title.

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ye thats precisely the point i disagree
i dont think the guy should carry a title on a class he didnt earn

Hard pass on lowering elite set rating requirements, this isn’t retail lol. They shouldn’t be free free

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Yeah, this isn’t retail. This is classic, where nobody plays arena in part because of stupid gatekeeping features like putting rating requirements on items you need to be competitive.

elite sets are cosmetic and has nothing to do with ppl performance brother

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I was only talking about the Wrath system. Cata Elite sets are obviously fine to be rating gated since they’re cosmetic only.

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