Overall damage isn’t fine, because these are post game balancing on details. That number is twice as high in the arena. Where you see 20k DPS, DURING the match it’s 45k. That is not healthy. There is no windup. There is no ramp. There is no multiple source damage ticks coming out like there is from boomy, affi, spri, hell even arms warrior.
And as I said, they’re also EFFECTIVELY cutting my damage by 50% because they heal that much every 6 seconds on an instant cast that’s not stoppable, while also having utility in Blessing of sanc/spellwarding, freedoms for root beams, etc…
They are the ULTIMATE class that has 0 weakness after the rework. The only remote weakness they have is the brain damage that ret players have.
There is obviously an extreme case of modifiers being involved in everything that is ret, but there’s also the reality that the modifiers only further AMPLIFY something that is already disgusting
My main issue with Ret design, is that it moves us further into the WeakAura meta of having to react fast to buffs/debuffs by seeing huge notification on your screen.
This type of gameplay is not conducive to getting new players, especially healers… into PvP
I do think people are sleeping on ES. It’s still extremely good burst on a short cooldown, and is pretty easy to build up to 100k damage almost every time.
HoJ 1-2 seconds before ES goes off. Burst right as ES is hitting with DS + DA procs ready, Judgment debuff active, 1-2 charges of Dawn, and hit a phat JV into wake of ashes and you are looking at 300-400k damage in 2 globals.
All of my quickest 100-0 kills so far have been with ES as it’s less reliant on crit RNG to pump the numbers during stun. ES just backloads damage instead of frontloading it so it’s a bit of a different playstyle.
Yeah that’s exactly my point. ES is actually very strong in combination with DA and Ire plus all your other modifiers at the same time like JV stun and FR. It’s just that everything hitting at once is too much.
Ret’s healing is hardly a problem especially in arena with dampening. They can still be tunneled down that free FoL isn’t going to keep you up when you’re being trained.
Ret will be in a good spot if they just tone down DA in combination with JV stun and ES/Ire that way you aren’t getting hit with 4 different abilities in one global.
Yeah all the passive modifiers and procs are the biggest issue. I’m not sure how they can nerf them besides just targeting the proc damage themselves.
I do however think that if they nerf every Ret proc they will need to shuffle some of that random burst damage into generators. Not a lot but around 10% into each generator, which comes out to approx 3% overall damage to compensate for loosing the majority of the RNG burst. DA & DS proc accounts for around 5-8% damage overall so 3% extra into sustain from small hitting generators is a healthy trade, which still leaves us more balanced overall.
It has to do with Details reporting “effective dps.” It more or less pauses parses, and doesn’t heavily punish moments when you aren’t attacking, as bad as a traditional dps meter that counts every second.
Ret sustain has always looked way higher then it actually is because of how Details functions.
Exactly
The mistake is to think the number reported during the game is correct, but djparrycheap isn’t known for much besides mistakes
Details also only screws up that way by default during pvp games. In all pve content it will correctly perform the simple math of total damage divided by time in combat lol
Not saying Ret isn’t in for some downward tuning but this is false.
I got hit by a 165K Chaos bolt followed by a 125K Chaos bolt tossed a 60K shadow burn and I took 350K damage in less than a global, I think it was 1.3 seconds to be exact. I’ve taken slightly less damage than that in 1.1 seconds from a Destro, Lock can literally drop you from 75% to zero in a bit over a second.
Yeah I know Chaos bolt has to be casted, good thing I’m slow as hell still. Not sure what modifiers/debuffs etc. are needed but I’ve taken Chaos bolts a lot higher than what your talking about in every solo against a destro every time I’ve Qed into one in the last few days. I’ve taken Incinerates very close to what your saying chaos bolts can’t do.
As much damage as I’ve been doing over the last few days if a Destro isn’t 100% focused they do more damage than me and can burst just as hard as me. If they are focused they out heal me as well, and damage is competitive to mine. I have yet to out heal one even during my fading light testing.
OP is spot on with how to fix burst - nerf some modifiers and heavily nerf things like DA and the free DS talent. This is the easy part.
Divine protection itself is a better wall than most specs’ 2-3 minute major defensive cooldown(Shaman wall, survival of the fittest, etc.), and it’s just one of like five of ret’s “minor” tools. 30% wall, 60s cooldown, usable in stuns - Feels like there should be two of these. Either a much smaller wall on the same cd and usable in stuns, or a much longer cooldown same wall usable in stuns, or same cooldown/DR but not usable in stuns. IIRC, you also used to have to choose between this and SoV. You now have a stronger version of both at the same time lol. I think DP needs a base nerf, and the talent that buffs both needs to be reduced as well.
SoV, big insta flash, dusk, and 1m wall are too much all together considering the rest of the paladin toolkit. The instant flash talent should heal for a regular flash in pvp. The talent that buffs wall and SoV should be nerfed by more than 50%. Dusk should get nerfed by 66-75%. I know that this looks like a lot, but this spec is brand new, rereleased basically at beginning-of-expansion power level with new talents that aren’t nerfed in PvP yet. Things with access to this many powerful tools already have pvp nerfs to this degree on them. Ret could currently play without bubble and still be the tankiest spec in the game tbh.
I don’t come to forums and post death logs so I clear my details between solos, but I assure you those numbers are accurate.
Saw a clip of a 210K Soul Fire today lol.
In other words you want to take our survivability back to where it was, wet toilet paper. Adding a total of one extra swing worth of HP and 4% more physical mitigation, 20K to our shield and less self healing than we had before. Your changes to divine protection make it worse than what it was prior to this patch 25% vs 30%, while not having SoV? This makes it worse than last week. This makes our overall survivability worse than last week if you factor in the healing nurfs…
JV healing is reduced from what it was, WoG got nurfed again. The instant flash of light talent we already had, it depended on holy power spent so we couldn’t us it as often but it healed for more than this one does after the 15% nurf to Flash of Light we got this patch. You want healing to go back to what? Lower than last week?
The top end is to high, but keep in mind the talents listed at the top add to our sustain as well, damage between wings/FR. This will nurf our burst but also nurf sustain pressure as well.
What your asking for… back to the same terrible defensives (DP worse in fact), less healing than last week, with freedom dispellable now less mobile with top end lower than last week. All for a a small boost in sustain damage?
The damage is less of a problem and easier to fix than the survivability. All of these new talents could be nerfed by 50% or more and it would still be the tankiest spec in the game.
There is no going back to last week. Whether ret was ok or not last week is irrelevant. It’s not a binary decision. The combination of all of the new stuff on top of existing paladin functionality is too much. I actually have a vested interest in wanting ret to still be good. I play a lot of cupid.
They need to nerf the passive healing but leave the active healing, and then the other hybrids need to be brought up on their active healing as well. That would solve a lot of problems
What Ret was last week is relevant if you want to make it worse. Nurfs from what Ret was are not needed.
I agree Ret is to strong and I know players are upset about it. That’s fair. You want to nurf (compared to last week) nearly all the general attributes of PvP power, in order to nurf a spec that wasn’t overperforming last week.
Compared to last week… You want to Ret to have lower burst damage, weaker defensives, less healing with mobility already reduced.
Downward tuning should be made but you are asking for a weaker Ret than last week.