This is not correct
1 Like
Honestly I think it’s a mistake to only consider the result of a key when considering the impact of healer DPS. More DPS regardless of source makes the encounters easier to complete. The margin of error for the group to both complete and time the key becomes larger the more DPS the healer can provide without being unable to keep their group alive. This is especially relevant for enemies that have mechanics based on a timer; getting one fewer tantrum on Cragmaw in Underrot greatly reduces the chance for a wipe, for instance. A lot of healers that refuse to DPS at times when they have nothing else to spend GCDs are actually making their own jobs harder.
1 Like
Just because you find it easier doesn’t mean everyone else will. I’m not saying anything about the validity of your experience, just pointing out that other people with different backgrounds and experiences can find other roles to be easier.
2 Likes
It depends on the person. I think for most casuals they just want to complete a key in time. They dont care if its a +3, +2, or +1.
That’s all subjective though.
When looking at what all 4 roles do and what they have to deal with melee is flat out the easiest. Followed by ranged dps then tanking/healing being the hardest.
I specifically do not talk or heal because I don’t have the time to dedicate learning everything perfectly and I respect the people that do.
Timing a key almost never depends on a single factor. It’s a group effort.
Now, yes, it’s Never the healer DPS’s fault for not timing a key.
My point is, M+ is about doing it as fast as possible, not only about timing it. Even at lower difficulties, a healer’s damage can still be the difference between a +2 and a +3. M+ is sorta competitive by nature.
That’s why I say it’s not necessary, as you said, you can totally time a key without the healer using a single damage spell with only regular DPSs. But the healer can still contribute by doing damage, making the difference between a good healer that’s able to contribute with damage and one who doesn’t still relevant.
I mean, what casuals decide to ignore doesn’t change the fact that you’re encouraged and even rewarded by the game for completing it in the shortest time possible. And this is by the game’s design, not only players attitude towards it.
“Casuals” (whatever that word means, it tends to change its meaning depending on the topic at hand) deciding to ignore some aspect of it is irrelevant.
These statements contradict one another, which is my entire point. The level of difficulty each person finds each role is specific to that person based on their own abilities and experience.
For example, I have 6 max level toons currently, all classes that can be healers. The only character I even attempt to DPS in grouped content is my druid here, which I have mained feral on for 15 years. Every other character I heal on (outside of tanking medium keys for friends and guildies on my monk), and even feel druid healing to be easier than feral. I am without a doubt most comfortable healing in wow and find it to be the easiest role.
Nothing in the previous paragraph makes any assessment about how anyone else will feel about role difficulty. I very well could be there exception as it relates to my comfort level with healing in wow. But nobody can claim that I’m somehow wrong because I find healing to be easier than any other role.
2 Likes
Mythic plus only gives two items at the end of a run for timing. Achieving a +3 or +2 run does not give more/better loot it only gives you a better m+ score compared to a +1. And if your goal is to get more m+ score you should try to do higher keys, not time lower keys faster.
Ideally monk still want to be in melee regardless of build so that:
-We regen mana through punching/kicking
-we Spread more HoTs/Renewing Mists through rsk
-we can use our interrupt to prevent needing to heal big damaging mechanics
-have short range auras you ideally want to get on the tank/melee ( healing/avoidance )
-we can easily apply mystic touch
-we can tactically aoe stun mobs to again prevent damage mechanics
So many benefits to being in melee as a monk regardless of build that you might as well roll something else if you don’t want to be in melee, but then again the person you replied to isnt really doing content where it matters though - so as long as they are having fun it’s whatever.
2 Likes
They don’t contradict each other at all.
Each role has different requirements.
Tank
Precise positioning
Correct taunting
Dealing with mechanics from a tank perspective and as a melee dps
Doing damage
Healer
Positioning
Maintaining healing across group/raid
Managing group cooldowns
Doing damage on downtime
Melee dps
Positioning
Maximizing damage
Dealing with melee mechanics.
Ranged dps
Positioning
Maximizing damage
Dealing with ranged mechanics.
Dps in general have the easiest role which is why it’s the highest played role in the game.
Now factor in that ranged have more mechanics in general to deal with and have a harder time maximizing damage due to casting.
Another example which proves you incorrect.
Take two mechanics
One is changing oil and tires
The other is changing an entire motor.
The mechanic may find changing the motor easier because of experience or it’s more enjoyable doesn’t change the fact that changing a cars motor is harder than changing the oil and tires.
That’s assuming everyone in the party is already at a higher io and it’s just a farm for some item. In which specific case, yes, healer damage is irrelevant.
And which requirement someone finds more difficult is subjective. You’re trying to boil everyone’s experience with each role down to a concrete number for everyone and adding things together to reach a result. But different people can and do find each requirement to have a different level of difficulty. The totality of everything they have to do in role A compared to role B can be different from the average player.
And melee has less space to deal with mechanics most fights than ranged players. For a person who struggles with precise movement, having less space to work with can be more challenging than balancing moving at all with casting.
The experience of each mechanic is different because of their level of experience and expertise. Changing an engine takes more time, training, and equipment than changing the oil, but those things don’t dictate the experience each person has with each. A mechanic who spends all their time changing engines very well can find that task less difficult than changing oil. Is that person wrong?
Let’s dispense with the hypotheticals. According to you, I’m wrong with my own experience. I find healing easier than DPS. Or am I lying to myself when I claim that?
2 Likes
In itself, the level of difficulty in each healer is due to various factors.
The type of healer/class, the build, the key, your team/pugs, the week, etc.
Currently all healers have to do the following (in high keys whether we want it or not):
- Mechanics (like any player)
- Do dps (like it or not, it helps a lot)
- Affixes (let’s be honest, many pug dps prefer to leave it all to the healer)
- Use your utilities (this includes ground control, cc, interrupts, etc.)
- Have a good management of your mana
- Know by heart the damage that enters in X moments
Among other conditions, it seems that I exaggerate… but when you go with pugs or people who prefer to solo… “dps” you feel it or notice it a lot.
And that is why it is more complicated, since the slightest error from you in your rotation or mechanics would mean the wipe of your party.
It will rarely happen with dps, where it affects his death (except on Neltharus).
Note: I’m not saying that the healer itself is the most difficult role, in the end everything will depend on your team…
But one thing is clear, if someone eats a mechanic or they miss the healer will have to heal that moment (of unnecessary damage) u.u
Difficulty doesn’t change based on someone’s preference.
Melee has overall less mechanics to worry about and their damage doesn’t take any punishment from movement.
You clearly have never played an arcane mage or demo warlock.
PS there are multiple fights where ranged have to stack in melee and still deal with casting. Meaning ranged deal with the same things as melee while having more mechanics and casting.
Experience does not change the fact that changing a motor in a car is harder than changing the oil or tires.
No I said your experience is anecdotal. While you personally may find melee dps harder than healing it’s doesn’t change the fact that melee dps is the easiest role to play flat out.
That’s like 10.0 meta. In 10.1 there’s enough unavoidable random target/aoe damage that healer kinda don’t have time to dps.
Brackenhide hollow and Vortex pinnacle are the best examples (and a raid, which has basically no hard mechanics, but a lot of aoe)
I’ve not once talked about preference, but their knowledge and experience. For someone new to both subjects, I doubt they would find multivariate calculus to be easier than basic astronomy. Yet for me, I find the former to be much easier than the latter as one of the bachelors I earned was in math compared to taking astronomy as a gen Ed.
You’re the one trying to argue that melee is easier than range, full stop. My experience on a mage or warlock is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Whatever conclusion I could make will be subject to my own experience and skill set.
As is everyone else’s experience. Healing is the easiest role for me to play. No matter how many times you want to repeat your assessment that melee is the easiest role, that’s an inaccurate description for me. As I said at the beginning, it’s fully possible I’m the exception and the majority of people will agree with your difficulty list. But the fact that any exception exists at all means presenting your ranking as a definitive answer is wrong.
This post seems kind of pointless.
You aren’t giving us a starting point.
You are posting on an alt, and not referencing the level of content you are doing.
If you are in +6 keys expecting your healer to play like he is sponsored it probably isn’t going to happen.
However I do 20’s and rarely see anyone with any form of downtime.
I really don’t get how the same five people keep posting these sort of threads, but they keep getting this many replies every time.
You can probably get away with not doing damage until like 21 or so, 22 or higher it will just be easier if you do damage during your downtime because you’ll need to kill bosses before you run out of mana.
Any dps who think their healer not dpsing is the reason they failed a 10 needs to learn how to do their job. 
1 Like