HC server is Pay to Win. How is that Hardcore?

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kynsa-mankrik

How does it actually kill servers?

Most current Wrath servers and the entire first run of SoM would be my evidence.

[Kynsa-mankrik]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

Most current Wrath servers and the entire first run of SoM would be my evidence.

Exactly how do the WOTLK servers or SOM servers prove anything? Your statement doesn’t make any sense, It’s like saying “The Sky is Blue” would be my evidence.

[Bumhugger-atiesh]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

The only time it ever had was when the community came together to create what we have now.

What about in 2012 when the Ironman challenge took hold and blew up far bigger than the current HC did?

Was that not Hardcore?

So this isn’t the only time wow has had hardcore…

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

Well, let’s follow the logic of your post

You have already missed the plot before you replied.

Let people play how they want within the confines of existing rules without restricting options beyond the bare bones of a HC server, I.E. Death=Delete. HC Official has the main focus set already, anything else is self regulatory. The AH could be filled with bot farmed items, if you aren’t using it as part of your HC challenge, you would never know or care. More limitations are entirely on the player, Blizzard isn’t going to entirely redesign the AH for this.

How is the set price you mention determined for items on the AH? Can guarantee you this will in no way deter bots as they will just adapt to the new structure and profit. Nor will a server without access to trading or the AH.
Example being: Bots farming til death than

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

Most current Wrath servers and the entire first run of SoM would be my evidence.

My realm for Wrath is healthy and fine, very rarely see bots and AH prices are reasonable. Sounds like an uninformed take.

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kynsa-mankrik

Exactly how do the WOTLK servers or SOM servers prove anything? Your statement doesn’t make any sense, It’s like saying “The Sky is Blue” would be my evidence.

The Wrath and SoM servers were rife with bots and RMT. What RMT does in game over time is change the inherent buy in propesition for a game. It is no longer, “I pay this much per month, and my access in game is only constrained by my playtime and play style”. Instead it becomes, “I pay this much per month, AND I need to pay this much per month in addition if I want to stay on the cutting edge, or otherwise make up that time directly by farming, myself.”

It’s just not as fun, it feels bad seeing bots running around everywhere because it is a constant reminder that this is the situation, and eventually people fall off.

HC frankly presents an excellent opportunity to try out new ways to combat botting, as it isn’t a normal server, and steps like limiting the AH and trade would be viewed in keeping with HC, not taking away from it as would more be the case on a normal server.

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

The Wrath and SoM servers were rife with bots and RMT.

The classic servers before TBC were too. You have zero point here.

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Deunan-atiesh

Can guarantee you this will in no way deter bots as they will just adapt to the new structure and profit. Nor will a server without access to trading or the AH.

Yes I can. If the AH was limited in the way I proposed, bots could farm and post, but would have no way of providing a client with gold, making botting pointless. It doesn’t require that we get rid of AH or trading, either.

[Ginzø-dalaran]

This is the Schrodinger’s dilemma of the HC community. They both care and don’t care about what others are doing x.x;

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

I know. Like imagine going out on a jog and being upset because other people arent jogging the way you want them to. Its so stupid.

[Ginzø-dalaran]

You listen here. It’s left right left right, not right left right left!!!

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

@Ginzø-dalaran

You listen here. It’s left right left right, not right left right left!!!

You might have gone out to Nordstroms and bought better jogging shoes than I did, you pay to winner

[Ginzø-dalaran]

Bought them Jordans off the Auction House for a cool 1000g. Lets me jump longer distances. >_>;

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

If the AH was limited in the way I proposed,

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

-Hard set Auction House prices for all tradeable items. This can even be done with adjustment based on availability of posting. This means you do not set a price yourself, you just post it and get the set price in profit if sold.
-Make all mailed/traded items Collect on Deliver, matching the set AH price, or at a slight discount. This, along with avoiding the AH cut incentivizes player-to-player trade, and allows you to reserve good found items for alts when they can afford it.
-Disable mail/trade of gold.

Quoting above for sake of reference.

How does this not functionally shut down the AH?
Do I get paid for the auction I set and how? Also seems like you are wanting to monetize every trade now? “When they can afford it”?

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

Disable mail/trade of gold.

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

It doesn’t require that we get rid of AH or trading, either.

Contradictory.

EDIT:
What is to stop these bots from just using HC servers to farm then dying and getting a free xfer over to a normal server with all their farmed goods?

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Ôwns-proudmoore

Like imagine going out on a jog and being upset because other people arent jogging the way you want them to. Its so stupid.

Oooh, I like this analogy.

It’s actually more like going for a jog and realizing that you only have dress shoes and need a pair of running shoes. So you go to the store, and instead of running shoes being like $100, they’re $500, and the ones you wanted are $800. And so you go, "why is this the case?"and it’s because the people around you are willing to spend that much money on them. And so you pick a different sport that doesn’t have that kind of buy in, because you don’t feel like running in dress shoes because you can’t afford not to.

This is effectively what this conversation is. 1)RMT is counter to what HC is and has always been about. 2)RMT can crash economies and ruin servers over time, or contribute to it.

[Piptak-mankrik]

@Kynsa-mankrik

No, hardcore is a simple game mode, it’s one life, no appeal that’s it.

So official isn’t the true hardcore either as it also has additional rules.
What we need to do to make it the real hardcore is set the server back to normal then and play it as is with the only change being death = delete. And no transferring after death either, you’re dead, you’re done.

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

The important thing about the official server is knowing that everyone that got to max level got there without dying. The addon never delivered that.

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Deunan-atiesh

Quoting above for sake of reference.

How does this not functionally shut down the AH?
Do I get paid for the auction I set and how?

For example, you find a Tigers Eye. Tigers Eye vendors for 1 S. Blizzard sets the buyout price of Tigers Eye to 10 S. You post it, so it is in stock to buy. Someone buys it. You are sent the 10 S, minus the AH cut.

What this does is allows for a meaningful economy, without people posting a Ruined Pelt for 100 G to allow Gold sellers to deliver gold to them, AND if the other measures I mentioned were taken, there would be no other way, either. Meaning no Bots.

@Deunan-atiesh

Contradictory.

Mailing and Trading GOLD =/= Mailing and Trading

[Vanillataur-garrosh]

@Piptak-mankrik

@Kynsa-mankrik

No, hardcore is a simple game mode, it’s one life, no appeal that’s it.

So official isn’t the true hardcore either as it also has additional rules.
What we need to do to make it the real hardcore is set the server back to normal then and play it as is with the only change being death = delete. And no transferring after death either, you’re dead, you’re done.

Piptak, this is pure nonsense.
Those additional rules are there to prevent griefing by tricking players into toggling PvP on, either by accident or by completing a Quest. This is absolutely another kettle of fish.
The additional rules are there to ENABLE us to do HC at all, not rules for you to follow like no AH or white gear only, or walk at all times, or naked, or SSF or whatever additional limitations people put on themselves.
If you want to PvP on a HC server, join the ones speaking up for PvP HC servers instead.

[Kannash-moon-guard]

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

It’s actually more like going for a jog and realizing that you only have dress shoes and need a pair of running shoes.

What do dress shoes equate to in your analogy?
What do running shoes equate to?

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

So you go to the store, and instead of running shoes being like $100, they’re $500, and the ones you wanted are $800.

Why do you need the $800 pair, and again what does this equate to?

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

And so you go, "why is this the case?"and it’s because the people around you are willing to spend that much money on them.

Welcome to Economics 101 - Supply and Demand.
This equates to - If people stop buying gold, then there is no inflation. Players are the problem, not the AH and trading, so might as well just stop people from playing entirely.

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

And so you pick a different sport that doesn’t have that kind of buy in, because you don’t feel like running in dress shoes

So, you don’t feel like it. Means you don’t actually need them.

@Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers

you can’t afford not to.

You could run without them.

But again, you don’t put any actual comparisons in here for your analogy so I have no idea what any of tis stands for or means. It’s just you telling some groundless story.

Also, the story doesn’t have the part where you’re comparing yourself to how others are jogging, so that doesnt hold up to begin with since this is all based around you comparing how others playing HV and potentially doing RMT affects you. How did the other joggers affect you?

[Charoom-bloodsail-buccaneers]

What if I want to be mage boosted in dungeons to 60?