HC server is Pay to Win. How is that Hardcore?

If the Hardcore server goes live with a fully unrestricted AH and Trade system, gold sellers will run bots on low risk farm routes and, though the gold might be more expensive, people will be buying gold on the Hardcore server as early on as any other server, and we will have the bot infestation yet again.

We do not need to get rid of AH/Mail/Trade to solve this. This is not a SSF post.

The server is meant to be Hardcore, and despite the line “Hardcore only means 1 life. That’s it.” being repeated over and over as if it were indisputable, this is not true. For one, the technical definition for “Hardcore” is, “the most active, committed, or strict members of a group or movement” and “highly committed in one’s support for or dedication to something”. Beyond that, one life already has a term in gaming widely that was already accepted; Permadeath. Hardcore was a mode on some games over time, where in addition to often being one-life, the game was made stricter or more difficult in a number of ways.

Beyond all of that, Blizzard themselves noted several items that were being changed in Hardcore in “keeping with the spirit of Hardcore” in their Rules of Engagement post after announcing Hardcore Official; “spending most of your leveling time in dungeons is counter in spirit to what Hardcore is about” and " Higher-level characters “power-leveling” lower-level characters are not something that we feel is appropriate for WoW Classic Hardcore."

So I ask you; with the server itself acting as the only verification method to authenticate fair Hardcore play rather than an addon, how can we be alright with people inevitably buying gold, and thereby buy gear that effectively allows someone to soft boost themselves to 60? It isn’t Hardcore.

My solution does not force people to play SSF, nor does it fully take away any aspect of the game, except bots and gold buying. Again, this is not a SSF advocacy post. I believe the server should:

-Hard set Auction House prices for all tradeable items. This can even be done with adjustment based on availability of posting. This means you do not set a price yourself, you just post it and get the set price in profit if sold.
-Make all mailed/traded items Collect on Deliver, matching the set AH price, or at a slight discount. This, along with avoiding the AH cut incentivizes player-to-player trade, and allows you to reserve good found items for alts when they can afford it.
-Disable mail/trade of gold.

Done. We still have an economy, we still have trade, but most importantly, we don’t have bots, we don’t have Real money trade, and the characters leveling on the server will be Hardcore.

If you disagree, please tell me why, because as far as I can tell, the only reason to not support this is self interest, whether that be just wanting to sell that rare blue for a ton of gold, or the intent to straight up buy gold to level easier.

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If Im doing a levelling challenge (a solo challenge) why would I care about what you’re doing?

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Presumably, so the servers do not end up like SoM or a bunch of current Wrath servers that were tanked by botting and RMT.

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Blizzard has never cared about taking steps to regulate the economy in the past 20 years, they certainly aren’t going to reprogram AH functionality for a single HC server.

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Because blocking access to the auction house is serious business! :joy_cat:

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Blizzard seems to not want to limit player choice.

Personally I see zero issue with disabling the AH. Won’t stop RMT but will curb an avenue for it.

Ultimately though you’d think the HC player base wouldn’t buy gold… who am I kidding tho.

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This.

Blizzard stepping in to control the economy is similar to us in real life asking the Government to fix ours.

Pointless.

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Now, now, we wouldn’t want hardcore to be… hard…
I think a lot of these pending hardcore players are really just wanting a fresh start server, the HC part is just an annoyance.

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hard pass on the bible you wrote.

get over it, trade is good for the game.

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Personally I see no reason at all to limit anyones ability to play the game like they want, and no, the risk of RMT does not concern me at all, certainly not enough to actually put in restrictions that would have huge negative impacts on valid and useful parts of the game, and that would impact me.

The AH, Trading and Mail also have no impact on the game being Hardcore (one life) or even how challenging it is. Can they make life easier? Yes, but so does taking engineering, doing every instance while over leveled, or skipping elite quests.

People will make HC what they want it to be, some will do things that are more challenging, others will find ways to make it easier, either way its their journey, and their choice as long as they don’t rez it doesn’t matter how they choose to level or play the game.

I think bots and RMT only really effect those who want to be effected by them, either where they buy gold themselves, or feel like they should have everything handed to them and are upset that others might have something they don’t. They can’t see that others simply put more time in the game or are better at managing their gold, instead they blame everything on RMT.

Before you accuse me of buying gold, never had a need as getting gold even in Era isn’t that hard, it only gets easier in TBC, and its practically dropping out of trees in WOTLK. It is very easy to be mostly self sufficient in the game, you just have to think and plan ahead. The funny thing is the only real gold sink in this game is repairs from dying, that shouldn’t really be a concern in HC.

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This response I hate. Yea I care about how ppl play when how they play ruins said game. Ie boosting, gkccp……

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I hate to boost everyone’s bubble here about HC modes in other games, but here we go.

You know that the majority of HC players in games like Diablo and Path of Exile simply buy gold and currency from sites like g2g right?

The ONLY way you stop P2W in ANY mmorpg, is to disable trading entirely. BDO did this and it stopped a lot of “outside” P2W; however, this affects the social aspects of the game as well.

So unless you do that, the other other way is to hire a team to focus on banning RMT. However, with salaries, benefits, etc., this is an unacceptable expense to the greedy billion dollar companies.

TLDR: EVERY game is P2W if it allows trading of currency in any facet due to companies not hiring the proper staff to handle RMT.

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Really simple. The game mode that was an addon, that spurred this revolution, and got us here should be treated as the constitution. People arguing definitions or whatever forget what got us here. Just keep that model. The Model that allowed us to succeed.
IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

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No, hardcore is a simple game mode, it’s one life, no appeal that’s it. The add-on couldn’t even get that right, so no it shouldn’t be considered constitution. It was also the concept of Hardcore, not the add-on that made Hardcore popular, and its a play style once again that precedes wow.

All that other stuff doesn’t add to the game being hardcore, it just limits peoples choices.

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Don’t trade/AH if your personal HC challenge says not to.
Stop attempting to police how others take on their own HC challenge.

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Hate to break it to you, but the only reason we have a functional economy is because of the Federal Reserve. This kind of just proves my point.

Touch grass dude. No one thinks you’re original or cool for posting this copypasta “I’m too good and I want everyone to know” post.

I would argue that what has been born out by evidence is that RMT actually disincentives long term play, which kills servers over time, or otherwise crashes the regular economy, as well as make boosting/unfair gear reservation possible. I don’t buy this, “Actually its totally benign and nothing other people do affect you.” argument. It’s just not evidenced, and reeks of wishful thinking.

It isn’t about about how easy it is to farm gold. It’s about how far the gold you have goes. When gold selling becomes pervasive by end game, the amount of farming necessary to stay competitive in GDKP, as well as the raw price of consumes. Just talking raw economics in this reply, not even talking HC necessarily.

Where do you get this idea from? Hardcore means different things in different games. WoW never had a Hardcore option before. The only time it ever had was when the community came together to create what we have now. And one of the foundational aspects of this is not allowing players to self-twink, boost, or buy gold. A lot of the more stringent restrictions, like grouping in the open world, was only in place because there was no way to enforce not getting boosted by a high level in game. Blizzard understood that, and put xp restrictions on this in game, since they do have the ability to support this. This simply proves that Hardcore=/=Permadeath only.

You think that Blizzard should let boosting and dungeon metas in the game that they are currently planning in taking out to “preserve the spirit of Hardcore”, because that limits the way players can play their own HC challenge, then?

Are you able to engage in actual conversation or are you just going to put words I 100% did not say or infer at all into my posts? Cuz I implied none of that and its purely your own projection.

Trade/AH do not ruin the game. Ya’ll are so terrified of bots that you’re willing to gut the game for everyone else playing to avoid it. One dungeon a day due to “DUNGEON META”, when will questing come under fire as too easy/watering down the Classic Experience? Welcome to auto attack simulator.

I also legit have NEVER cared how other players spend their game time. It has never bothered me what someone else does when it does not effect me.

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Unfortunately the addon which enabled the streamers to make this mode popular allows appealing deaths, which isnt hardcore at all.

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How has this been born out by evidence? How does RMT actually disincentive long term play? Where is your evidence to this? How does it actually kill servers?

Well, let’s follow the logic of your post. You said that because I advocate implementing limitations(not removal) in order to preserve the intent of Hardcore, I am policing how other people play Hardcore. However, there are already limitations on play in order to preserve the spirit of Hardcore. The conclusion would then follow that you might consider these “policing how other people play”, as they meet the same criteria…

… And you seem to agree…