HC PvP Realm

WoW Classic WoW Classic Hardcore
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World of WARcraft!

If you comment I would first ask that you all state whether you like to PvP in Classic or not, that way we know who just doesn’t want a PvP server because they just don’t want to PvP, versus people who like to PvP but don’t like the idea of a HC PvP server.

War is in the name, it is expected.
Think of the brutal nature of an economy where even going to go get some Black Lotus is dangerous, forcing people to group up as much as possible. Think of the interactions between players, the Bounties and the Brawls over resources and Terrain. The strain it would put on an economy would raise prices appropriately because something as simple as making Greater Health Potions is much harder to do.

HC is an amazing experience as it stands for sure, however only ever being a PvE experience until you opt into Mak’Gora or BGs isn’t a World of Warcraft. It would get so many views on youbtube/twitch (uploading or streaming for the brave) channels as well, due to the fact that once you enter PvP areas you are risking it, bringing tons of new free advertisement to WoW.

HC is a highly addictive way to play WoW Classic, and one of the best ways to play WoW is to Raid or Fight against the opposite faction. Going into places like Duskwood, STV, Tanaris, Wintergrasp and more will be literally infused with adrenaline any and every time you log in/step out of the protection from guards. I don’t really expect people to be able to get a raid going as soon as they would on normal HC servers, but that just makes getting there and having consistent raids that much more of an achievement.

I believe a small tweak to player perception of other players in stealth would be all that is needed to make sure not everyone is playing Rogue or Druid just to get higher level to gank. Perhaps being higher level not having an increased difficulty seeing other players, and giving guards of towns all the ability to see said players, that way there is safety after the long arduous trek to a new Fort/Town/Camp.

I understand PvP is not everyone’s thing, however I hope we can have a conversation with other PvP players and actually show Blizzard this would be a dynamic and brutal server that is worth giving a shot.

Ideas/Benefits for small changes to further balance a PvP HC Server:

1. World PvP as long as players are within Honorable Kill range. And/Or Contested Zone Triggered.
Essentially the zones levels determine if you are auto flagged. If you are NOT auto flagged (meaning you’re too high a level for that zone) then you are not flagged by entering that zone, instead the code allows you to engage with other players +/- 5 levels of you(you’re always flagged this way). However, lower level characters can flag and attack higher levels by choice or by grouping with someone higher level.

  • Immersion+
  • Player Happiness+
  • Fair PvP

2. Gold Farming/Selling will naturally be less of an issue on a PvP server. :wink: (We will likely seek out and kill all gold farmers, and they are usually pretty obvious to players, this will keep the fan base happier with less work from Vanilla GM/Devs.)

  • Economy+
  • Immersion+
  • Player Happiness+

3. The Prices of good consumables will stay higher and be much more important, and securing these contested zones or farming them will be a reason in it’s own to start Skirmishes or Wars. (which is also one of the themes of the Faction conflicts in Wow via the Warsong Clan and the Night Elves, the Dwarves and the Frostwolves etc etc.)

  • Economy+
  • Immersion+

4. Having Towns/Forts in contested Zones have Stronger Guards with a heightened Stealth Perception/Higher level to prevent raids in more dangerous zones for momentary respite in a harsh world. (Helping to have more places that are safe if you need to quickly hearth for in-game or even RL issues you need to suddenly deal with)

  • Economy+
  • Community+

5. Likely will be a “self cleaning” server for bots, gold farmers, and other issues that usually and likely will slip under a crew without many more manned people behind your phones or on chat.(Costs less to maintain).

  • Economy+
  • Immersion+
  • Player Happiness+
  • More Money for Blizzard+

6. Upgrading the rate (and maybe extending rest area to the whole guarded town) at which rest xp is gained will encourage people to rest in towns (community gathering) and wait for groups to venture forth together. This will also speed up leveling a lot and I think would make a PvP server play more like a Massive MOBA, where going back to town to rest while still online is actually worth it(You would literally watch your Rest XP bar ticking up). Maybe a around 2 hours till max rest XP, that way you are sure to run into people crafting/using the utilities and services of the town and people in each zone helping one another and not just in major cities. (faster leveling in a harsher world, and reason to grind while you can will make it more relevant as you poke into the world into enemy territories to kill what you can. Essentially giving the feeling that each new town you make it to is like a whole new game working through a whole new FOB (Forward Operating Base)

  • Community+
  • Immersion+
  • Player Happiness+

7. Bringing back 1 faction per account on the HC PvP server will help to reduce enemy faction spies, helping to bring back that original rivalry older PvP servers had in Vanilla. (obv this can be circumvented with multiple accounts, however most people do not use multiple accounts.)

  • Immersion+
  • Player Happiness+

8. Killing Players in the Open World provides not only higher Honor than originally designed, but also provides Experience akin to completing a Quest. This will not only force players to out level Zones they PvP in if they survive with their crew, it will force them to move on with their tactics to other zones they are allowed to PvP in such as Redridge Mountains (lvls 15-27), Duskwood (18-30) etc. Raid Groups shall also be disabled entirely, to encourage smaller teams to have to coordinate. This helps to also force those who Twink to eventually move on to the next Zone where higher levels are able to PvP and potentially deal with them as lower level Twinks, or they can choose to start a new toon but are now forced to the task of twinking again, which will take time.

  • Less Camping Zones for long periods+
  • No High Level Ganking.
  • Twinks can’t lock down zones forever.

After Reading this, you have many questions, but I also encourage you to think about how you would play in this more MOBA-like HC-PVP Server?

Would you be a Night Elf Hunter who plays the Role of a Server Scout in a Zone? Melding in the Trees of Ashenvale with your trusted Cat stealthing by your side, sending reports in the Local Defense Channel of Incursions from the Horde who come to cut down your ancient trees?

Or

Will you be and Undead Rogue? Stealthing behind enemy lines, reporting back all you see, and seeking out someone who decided to take a risk and level alone or with only one other? Plotting your every move with subterfuge and guile. Your mouth hungry for Dwarven Flesh.

Or

A tactical Human Warrior, with your RL buddies who both main heals. A Disc Priest and a Holy Paladin by your side as you step into the Wetlands for the first time and begin seeing reports of a roaming Horde War Party who are 4 strong and causing havoc to your faction?

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I think an announcement of a HC PvP Realm alone would bring a lot more Hype to this project. There is definitely a lot of popularity with this project, but it’s only so far catering to PvE Realm players primarily. Why does HC have to be PvE only? PvP players are a different breed and welcome these kinds of challenges.

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I recommend moving this to the top of your message, so people will be more likely to read it.

I’ve played on pvp servers almost exclusively for over a decade until trying out HC on BSB.

The challenge of HC is to overcome the leveling challenge, pvp has always been secondary to the game (in spite of its name). So yeah, I want to accomplish that task without having to worry about having my run erased by a bored 60 rogue. And keep in mind, that’s what the majority of world pvp actually is: a high level character jumping on a lower level running by, just trying to grind or quest. It’s almost never a fair clash between similar leveled players.

If you want the challenge though, you can just toggle your pvp status and play with that risk. You just won’t be able to be that bored 60 rogue putting an end to someone’s hardcore run (unless they, too, opt in to world pvp :slight_smile:)

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yeah, weirdos.

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While this is very circumstantial, I will have to disagree here. There is a difference between how retail and classic are like when in retail you fight a higher level they almost always win. However I have fond memories of me and a hunter friend of mine (me a shaman) killing skull (unknown level) together at level 20. People that can play pvp can over come and fight hard enough to make people think twice. Also I noticed while leveling in HC because there is so much death there isn’t nearly as many high levels simply able to just come gank, and if they do we can call for an appropriately high level to come counter gank which makes it all the more interesting.

I can understand that, but that’s why I think that the only real way this works is for people to opt in on servers.
Toggling pvp only makes you vulnerable to never know who’s gathering to attack you. It’s not nearly the same type of experience as everyone being toggled once entering a zone. Also simply toggling doesn’t mean you’ll encounter the world the same way either, having people choose to bypass you that you might have otherwise contested.

I want to say this can be fixed but using the same coding they use to honor the kill as worthy of an HK, but change the code slightly so that you can only fight people within a certain level range.

Noted. Thanks…

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I dont mind a pvp server and have played on pvp servers but without a different rule set for hard mode I wouldnt want pvp.

For it to work for me perma death could only happen if all the pvp damage that got you killed was done by opponents within 5 levels of you (ie others can still gank you but it does not result in perma death). I think the system could also distinguish between pvp deaths and non pvp deaths - with a certain number of pvp deaths being required for perma death.

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I definitely think a PvP-HC option would be interesting, and for sure fun at first but as others have said the eventuality of massive level gap ganks would ruin the experience.

There would need to be some sort of system changes.

Or for the PvP server, make it so the only way to ressurect is by player abilities? While it wouldn’t be true hardcore and death wouldn’t be full permanent, it would allow players the comfort of being ganked but still being dead until someone else comes to your aid. Because otherwise…

I would bet money if nothing was changed not many would come to try and countergank for fear of losing. Playing on PvP servers prior has shown me only a select few actually have faction honor and are willing to go out of their way to stop ganking on low levels when it won’t affect them otherwise when death isn’t permanent.

Edit: Wanted to add to the player ressurection idea. Corpses would only last a set period of time to be rezzed, and that timer would still tick down even when offline. That prevents players from trying to hold onto their body for a future rez and will still let there be perma death.

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As one of the few people who have a level 60 SSF HC pvp flagged character under their belts, I can say it’s a fun experience but not necessarily one that would work on a full pvp server.

I would also add that as someone who streams, pvp runs are 100% off stream due to stream sniping, so I’m not so sure that’s a likely outcome.

As someone who was on a pvp server for Classic launch, I’d also suggest a pvp server would end up being one faction, because murderballs and camping flightmasters would be as prevalant as we saw during P2.

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As stated above I think a simple fix such as only allowing pvp between players of the same level gaps, completely removing the ability for people to gank you from ridiculously high levels.

This would keep the pvp in a fun state but still more of a risk, and the world would definitely feel at war.

While this is true for sure, a lot of the more famous streamers do travel in groups, and have lackeys that will fight back.

I will say that streaming or non streaming traveling in groups or playing smart is a part of the experience here. Shying away from getting ganked is not the spirit of a HC PvP realm, it’s expecting you might die and adds another threat to those already existing in the normal PvE Realm.

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I enjoy pvp and HC mode. I would welcome the challenge. It could go up in flames… sure… but it could also be a lot of fun. I could see people dying and rerolling to sway server stability. I think its worth the experiment.

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and then it’ll die faster then SoM when everyone gets killed at lv. 16

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In order to create a more balanced and respectful gaming experience, the PVP HC server should implement a system that prevents high-level players from attacking or killing low-level players. By implementing this feature, lower-level players can enjoy the game without fear of being targeted and defeated by higher-level opponents, fostering a more enjoyable and inclusive environment for everyone.

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Yes I would play HC PvP

-and I’m not simply speaking out my read end. I exclusively played flagged on Bloodsail. But it’s really a gimped experienced. We need a PvP Realm. Plz!!! or SoM type pvp buff.

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So it be a PvE sever

and I’m not simply speaking out my read end. I exclusively played flagged on Bloodsail. But it’s really a gimped experienced. We need a PvP Realm. Plz!!! or SoM type pvp buff.

you can still flag on the HC server

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Yes this exactly, preventing ganks that could happen that in almost no way could the victim win.

I think using the same system as what awards HKs but adding in that you just can’t attack them if they’re too low level.

I believe that adding this to the Party System for grouping will also be needed as you could have one person like level 29 in the party and another level 20 in the party and potentially the 20 is risking it because people that can attack the level 29 could essentially flag his party… so there’s a benefit to running with your stronger buddy but there’s a risk as well.

That’s not nearly the same experience as a full pvp server would be. No one really opts to flag. Forced flagging makes things much more interesting.

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Are you just one of those guys that wastes yours and everyone else’s time by trolling topics you have no angle on other than to be negative?

There are plenty of people that a PvP server would pertain to and there is a high likelihood that HC servers and yes a PvP HC servers would make Blizzard money.

People like HC so much they die all the time and reroll or “agane”. That same spirit would easily transfer to PVP HC Realms.

If you have an angle or something productive to the conversation I hope we can discuss it, but the random negativity is just strange.

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The main rule *most of us have agreed on is that PvP should be limited to how strong the players are.

Naturally, this new “Flagging System” would allow people to flag you outside of your normal range if you’re grouping with someone who is stronger or weaker and nearby (within normal engagement proximity) as they get flagged. As this is risking it to help, or be helped by higher levels as you traverse the Contested Zones.

I think this would be great and I suspect that a lot more people would be interested that only so far see HC as a PvE only leveling experience. So far nothing has been considered and there isn’t a lot of PvP hype other than Battlegrounds (Where death won’t be permanent and can still be done on the PvP HC Servers IMO)

This could totally be done with minimal effort from the team, and I suspect it would be a wild ride.

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oh ya i hear the hardcore PvP in diablo 3 was such a hit they readded it to 4

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Yes did you not understand my post? I said “I exclusively play flagged on Bloodsail” that means I only play with /pvp.

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No we didn’t all agree to that. Simply give us HC Ruleset Realm on a PvP Realm.

You clearly haven’t experimented with flagging on PvE server, as I have extensive experience doing.

Problems:

  1. Making PvP deaths not perma leaves the door wide open to exploits. About to die? Just have your friend tag you then you’ll be fine. Ganking actually results in saving the player.
  2. Battlegrounds should stay disabled. Or atleast all bonus honor should be disabled and honor should only be rewarded through honorable kills. As it stands now, HC Ruleset disabled the honor system and BGs.
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