You get one appeal. If the appeal passes, you allowed another appeal.
If the appeal fails, you’re not allowed to ever appeal again on that account.
That would prevent phony appeal reports, with appeal reports being a mass server outage only (that is, they don’t cover individual DC’s). I’ve 120-160 friends from raid wide DC’s due to server crash. Very few people “go agane” after they lose BWL geared toons to a server crash. It’s the #1 community killer. Guilds completely disband, fracture, etc.
Not only are appeals against the spirit of hardcore, it will be a complete crap show. If you feel the need to ever appeal a hardcore death, this game mode is not for you, period.
Only way at all I would allow it, is the appealed character has to carry a permanent title or buff stating that they have died and been resurrected.
At least the community could have the chance to shame, laugh and know that they are not a hardcore player, but a player without the stones to enter Valhalla like a true warrior.
No appeals ever, not one, not for any reason, never appeal-core, as soon as you add any appeals, its no longer Hard Core.
Fortunately it would never ever be cost effective to ever roll back any characters or have even single appeals, so there is zero chance that Blizzard would ever consider it. It would also create a mess with people who managed to get their deaths overturned versus those who didn’t creating resulting in even more whining and crying demanding rollbacks.
If you can’t handle a death, you shouldn’t be here, and no HC was never going to be a mega server, and the server populations is just fined. There is a reason when you create a HC character you get a warning, you seem to have missed that.
Please explain how a 40 man raid wiping in BWL to server outage is healthy.
“There is a reason when you create a HC character you get a warning, you seem to have missed that.”
No one missed that. That’s why we’re asking for the appeal CHANGE!
My restriction would be server outages only.
When you’ve gotten to know lots of people, and four times in a row (120-160 people) those people all quit in droves because of a server outage raidwipe, you’ll change your mind.
Honestly, if they weren’t petri abusing I bet most of those raiders wouldn’t even be going anywhere near BWL, so hard to care a lot about people dying in a raid, especially if most of them would likely already be dead already without using an exploit.
However petri flask argument aside, which there are obviously strong opinions on both sides, the reason it’s healthy for the server is it pushes people back into the world, eliminating what is essentially raid logging. It’s overall why the HC server has a healthy leveling population where most ERA servers are stagnent, and where they are often simply made up of large “raiding” populations. Thats the thing about HC, death is positive and good for the game, it only hurts HC, when you start removing or even limiting deaths, thru things like Petri Flasks, or other exploits used by players to avoid dying.
As for those who leave? HC will almost always have a very small population, so losing some people who probably were never really hardcore to begin with isn’t a huge deal.
I agree with the removal of Petri, albeit one Petri per week (otherwise people will wipe raids for viral video clips).
I also think targeting dummies shouldn’t work in dungeons.
In fact, other than the appeal on server outages, I would make hardcore extremely hardcore, including the removal of world buffs in the open world leveling. World buffs expire unless stored in boon or while in rest experience area, and can only be used in raids. The moment you engage in combat in the open world, the world buffs expire.
I’d probably double damage output on most mobs and bosses too (where it can be), and triple their health.
While a weeklong cooldown might help in someways it might actually make problems much worse. The problem with Petri raiding or even dungeons is that it creates an artificial safety net where instead of working to solve a problem, people instead bail out, it’s the safe thing to do of course.
However if you put Petri flasks on a week long cooldown, it might break dungeons/raids since while petri raiding is problematic, petri dungeons/raids where only a few of your team can petri is even worse, for example, say the healer or tanks decide to save themselves the moment things get spicy, but where maybe several of the DPS can’t. It would just create a problematic scenario, ultimately creating a new class of players who simply would petri log.
Perhaps the answer is to disable petri flasks on SR but leave them on DP, and give all existing characters a free transfer to the other server if they so choose. This might force people to servers they don’t want to play on though so thats a bit problematic. Ultimately though, I think the ship has sailed and were simply going to be stuck with it, as there really isn’t much justification for investing any more money in HC outside of dealing with critical bugs and normal maintenance.
You kick them from guild if they petri without raid leader command and put them on third party ban list with video proof. That’s a social issue that be fixed socially.
In short if petri is used for whatever reason, everyone loses a week of raiding (full reset period) in exchange for months of grinding to 60 and pre-bis and MC/ZG gear. It would make guilds not want to petri unless they had no other choice.
However, consider what happens with no petri at all. People looking to make viral video clips of wiping raids and guilds.
Steamers and “content creators” would easily shell out a hundred bucks under the table to randoms and plants to do this. Hence why people get very anxious on Four Horseman.
Appealing doesn’t inherently mean the person appealing knows for a fact that it will be appealed.
By your same logic, if applied to reports which are also not inherently indicative of right or wrong doing, if someone reported another and blizzard found the report inconclusive of action, then the reporter would just forever lose their ability to report?
That’s what you’re detailing your appealing system to be, which would ultimately be an appeal system that slowly weeds itself out of existence. It’s honestly one of the stupidest ideas I’ve read so far.
The only time you can appeal: Gamewide Server Outage (something that Blizzard has a log of). You are told this this in big red font (like many other things in WoW) when you file the appeal. If you file a false appeal, you forever lose the right to appeal.
Also, explain how server outage mass deaths (500+ when it happens) are healthy for the community. Everytime it’s happened, the community always gets a little smaller, especially when one or two guilds experience a full raid wipe.
So if in your hypothetical blizzard already has the logs and already knows then what’s the point of the appeal? Delusional.
Nice loaded question.
It isn’t.
Healthy or not is moot. You’re playing a one life game mode that explicitly told you before you played that any death for any reason is permanent. You said yes.
If HC ends up being wasted realms at the end of the day, then that’s fine. That’s how video games work. Eventually they stop getting played.
Or you go agane, which is supposed to be the entire spirit and essence of HC, is it not?
“You’re playing a one life game mode that explicitly told you before you played that any death for any reason is permanent. You said yes.”
Stop repeating this. We all know this. Hence why we’re asking for a change.
“Or you go agane, which is supposed to be the entire spirit and essence of HC, is it not?”
Tell that to the multitudes of 40 man raids whose accounts never logged in ever again after a server outage.
“So if in your hypothetical blizzard already has the logs and already knows then what’s the point of the appeal? Delusional.”
No because a GM would still have to go through the appeals to ensure that the person died during the exact time of the outage, and not a a minute before or a minute after. Otherwise someone could legitimately die in a raid, but “get lucky” because the servers went down 10 seconds after.
All you do is build strawmen, slippery slope fallicies and repeat something that everyone knows.
Hardcore has been this way for 20+ years. This is not a new mode introduced by some softcore mod that pretends it’s hardcore with appeals. Blizzard first had HC with Diablo2 back when it came out, and it worked exactly as it does now. If you are new to HC and being told “This is how HC is” it’s because that is the truth.
They should ban players who grief through exploits, but they should not ever change their design philosophy. Either you are part of the HC community, where you come and go as the urge strikes to make a HC character in whatever game you’re in that offers it, or you’re a tourist. Stop asking to change a game mode that has been here longer than some of these posters have been alive.
Stop trying to explain this to people who just happily swallows whatever multi-billion companies feed them, so far their arguments has been: “the game is like this eeeeeeekkk” “you no a real hc player eeeeeekk”
As far as I can see now, HC appeals in general terms to two groups of players, people who find the mode interesting because “everything matters” due to the risks, and people who want to feel better than other players because they’re “true hardcore” and this somehow translates to not complaining if the game has 20 year old exploitable bugs.
To me these people reeks to “I’ll make a hunter and grief others to weed out the fake HC players” which is very sad.
Almost no deaths on HC are blizzard issues, its almost always a players mistakes, or their internet or their computer. There have been very few actual. server issues. All this whining is just that whinging by players who should have never been on. a HC server. I mean seriously even if you disconnect and die, big deal, step up go again, thats how HC works. There should be no real long term end game, its HC, you die and go again.
If you feel the need to whine and demand appeals because life isn’t fair and you died, you really do not belong on a HC server, and should either simply go back to ERA, or go back to ERA with the add-on so you can approve and grant yourself appeals when you feel the world is simply to harsh. What you truly desire isn’t HardCore, but AppealCore.
Blizzard made the correct call when they said no appeals no matter the reason, the only screw up was they allowed petri to exist which has allowed non HC players to persist on the server.
Every bug related death should be a blizzard issue.
At least that’s clear. Yet you seem to be unable to process WHY.
First, no one said that.
Second, you had the chance to give some logical arguments besides the ones I exemplified, but instead you literally screeched a bit more, can you guess if your reply assisted with the discussion?
