Thank you. This thread has been filled with people trying very hard to convince themselves that the havoc rotation is in fact engaging or as difficult as other classes. I’m also enjoying the “I used to mythic raid” comments. Hard to get a conversation going when the majority of people in it are willingly lying to themselves, or aren’t really engaging in current content.
Nope. I enjoy the simplisitc rotation and is one of the main draws of the spec.
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Both Xaedys and Ravenborn are mythic raiders from this xpac and you’ve dismissed their feedback and the points they have made. Not just about your suggestions but how they would affect the class itself and the play style. All the while ignoring the very essence of the thread itself. That we all acknowledge the rotation is not difficult or engaging, but that it goes for most toons in WoW today. Something you can’t counter or debate. And while most are trying to have a conversation you keep making disparaging remarks about those that play DH as if we’re too dumb to understand the intricacies of what it takes to be a real player. Because your insights are so profound and far and above the understanding of those that don’t do mythic content. Ok. But the fact remains that while you sneer down from your lofty perch of 7th level enlightenment you are still playing the class too. A class you feel needs to be reworked. Have more depth added. Is not too difficult or engaging. Yet you keep playing it. Enjoying the fruits of the DH tree. Kind of hard to mock others for “willingly lying to themselves” when you have taken it to a mythic level. And continue to benefit from the very things you think we’re pleebs for enjoying.
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First off, none of the melee classes are difficult or complicated right now, especially compared to, oh, say, during LK and Cata, when there were more stats to balance, more buffs to manage, more cooldowns to keep track off, and more abilities at the fingertips of literally every class and spec. Secondly, “engaging” is a highly relative and subjective term.
So if we disagree with you, it’s automatically because we’re not up to your level in current content? That’s both moronic and arrogant. You can’t argue with our logic, and you don’t like our stand points on the subject matter so you attack our character by saying we’re currently suboptimal players and therefore we don’t have valid opinions.
You started a thread based on your own opinions, and when others opined, those that disagreed with you, in your mind, are not entitled to their opinions.
- Skill level and having good opinions are not mutually inclusive, as opinion is subjective and based on certain points of view.
- You think that people who are not current top tier raiders and pvpers like you must not understand the game anymore. This is inherently false. The raid group I currently run with is filled with some of the best raiders my server group has seen - we have many server firsts in my guild, yet our raid group is called “The Burnouts” because we’re all tired of the effort it takes to raid at mythic level, and we like to include friends who don’t have the skill to raid at that level because we’re all friends and family and like to be inclusive. Just because we don’t currently raid mythic tier doesn’t mean we’re not capable, it just means we don’t want to anymore. Everyone in my guild has that thing called “a life” these days, and very few have enough time to play more than 2-3 hours a week, which includes raid time. (Many people in my guild log in only for the weekly 2-hour raids because it’s all they have the time for.)
- Not agreeing with you doesn’t mean we’re lying to ourselves. It means we don’t currently want to raid mythic, nor does disagreeing with you invalidate our opinions.
- You think people should play a class because they like it thematically. Not everyone plays a class for the same reason. Some like a class because it’s easy for them to understand. Some people play a class because it’s fun for them to RP. Some play a class because the fighting graphics look cool. Some play a class because it’s what their raid group needs at the time.
- Telling you to go play another class if you don’t like the current state is actually a viable argument as well as a viable option for you. People change classes all the time because they don’t like the way a class plays in whatever content they’re running. I raided my rogue from Vanilla through the beginning of BfA and changed mostly because I no longer enjoyed its play style. There were other reasons for sure. For instance, I hate that combat, I mean Outlaw, rogues went from being ninja-type warriors to pirates. But yeah, mostly because of the mechanics. This was not an easy decision. For many expansions I loved my rogue. I had rare titles on it (such as a vanilla pvp title), Warglaives from back in BC (when mine was only one of three guilds on my serverthat was able to kill Illidan before patch 3.0 came out), and I was attached to it like one is attached to a friend - I had been through a lot with my rogue. Yet I still changed… And you can, too.
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people mighty sensitive in this thread good lord. fun’s over i’ve come to understand the community enjoys their three button rotation
6/8 heroic. lol
This little comment of yours proves most of his/her points and also proves that you didn’t bother to read everything.
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why would i bother. there’s nothing to refute. i’m confused as to why people need to type paragraphs when the ultimate point is “everyone has their own opinion”.
When players who don’t engage in high levels of gameplay say “i like my three button rotation”, it makes sense to me why that would be satisfactory for them.
So essentially sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “lalalalanotlisteninglalala”. As for “need to type paragraphs” you wrote a whole diatribe which we read through, but you can’t extend the same courtesy. Get back to us when you reach maturity.
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You started this thread and asked “What do you guys think?” Then you proceeded to flame everyone with an opinion that didn’t line up with what you wanted to hear. The weirdest thing is that most agree with you on at least your fundamental assertion that Havoc’s rotation is boring. You lament the fact that you wanted a discussion and yet you’re the only one not participating. You’re just tossing molotov cocktails at everyone that posts. Xeadys gave a great answer. Backed up as usual with insights and thoughts on actual mechanics, lore, stortyline, experience with other toons and examples. Which you didn’t even bother to address or engage. Instead time and again you have chosen to mock and belittle those that have proffered an opinion. That’s your choice of course. But conversations don’t go very far and tend to derail quickly when the one you’re talking to acts like an azzhat.
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Tbh all classes rotation is pretty boring. Dh may look more simple but really isn’t. It’s all gear and essence. Some classes have procs to wait for. I have 12 120s reason I play dh is its essence is easier to farm and has less eng proc reliance.
Honestly, I’ve mostly checked out of this thread, since, as pointed out above, your reaction to any form of disagreement is to spew vitriol and ad hominems like a firehose until it goes away. That said, I figured I’d go ahead and fact check this statement by a supposed “elite raider”:
If Chaos Strike is not your most-cast ability right now, you’re doing it VERY VERY wrong.
Take a look at the current SimC profile (http://simulationcraft.org/reports/T23_Raid.html -> expand Havoc). The Ability table shows Chaos Strike + Annihilation (ie. Chaos Strike in Meta form) being cast an average of 123 times over a 300 second fight (it counts each hand as a unique event, so the average sum count is 245.9), with a total of 115.2s of the 300 spend using Chaos Strike. Demon’s Bite, by comparison, was cast only 100 times, consuming only 96.3s of the duration. No other active ability comes even close to these two.
Now, you could perhaps make the argument that the ratio should favor Chaos Strike more, and it did in the past, with crit-scaling refund (too much, tbh). But that wasn’t your statement.
You stated that Chaos Strike should be our most frequent button press, in the context of making Demon Blades baseline, implying that Chaos Strike is not our most frequently pressed button without Demon Blades present. Data shows this to be abundantly false. I rate this claim “Pants on Fire”.
Also, looking at your profile, you didn’t raid Uldir at all on your DH, and didn’t raid mythic in BoD (and only 3/9 heroic). You also didn’t raid mythic at all on your DH in Legion, going only as far as heroic. Mythic is a brand spanking new thing to you on your DH as of this tier. So you can stop trying to pull your high and mighty trick with mythic raiding, it’s not going to work. Half the people in this thread, myself included, have more mythic experience on their DH than you do.
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I haven’t seen any of that here, this is just a mis-representation of those who disagree with you.
I am also enjoying the “you need to mythic raid to speak about balance” comments. Sirlin you are not.
A rotation is a rotation regardless of the content it is being conducted in dude. You’re looking for people to agree with you, they’re not, so you’re coming up with nonsense excuses. Get over yourself.
And that is the end of this thread.
Excellent work Xaedys. This is why I play DH
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I had a discussion with the other 2 demon hunters who are on my raid team. I play cookie cutter Blind Fury + Immolation Aura + Demonic, one plays Demonic Appetite + Demons Blade and Demonic and the last one plays Fel Blade + Demons Blade and Momentum. We can agree on the fact that Demon Hunter is very easy to pick up and get your blue parses in raid. However, the optimization with to get those purple and gold parses are hard. Which I think is a good thing to have in a class.
You have an easy entry level but a hard skill cap which I feels like describes the current class design as may others have said. For the current state of the game is alright. I don’t think that the spec needs to be changed period. We fill our little niche, the abilities flow together well, and we are doing fine in Eternal Palace. If you want more abilities just wait until the Shadowlands Alpha/Beta comes out and see what new buttons we may be getting with the ‘unpruning’. Personally I’m not expecting much since we were created during Legion with that design philosophy so there really isn’t anything to ‘unprune’. I think all the spec needs is for some of our talents to get re-worked to either fit better with the kit or something new that changes how the spec is played. I’m looking at you Fel Mastery.
I can’t speak for long term mythic raiding experience as I just joined a mythic raiding guild this tier but I’ve gotten all my AOTCs since I returned to the game in 7.3.5. My BOD and Antorus AOTC were completed on different characters.
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And people should take note of your pathetic AotC history (through achievements). If you’re going to dish it out, at least have a history of engaging in the content instead of being carried in 1 tier…
Why would anyone consider your opinion with the attitude you’ve given with complete ignorance and inexperience 
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Xaedys shut the door on this post quite nicely.
RIP
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Complete raiding progression on the account:
Speaks for itself 
The experience from past seasons:
https://raider.io/characters/us/sargeras/Haugs
Seems we have someone beating their chest over carries 
And who knows how many of those AotCs (not even CEs) were bought and/or begged for from friends near the end of the tier.
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Every class is very simplistic and easy right now. If you don’t enjoy it why do you play it? I only casually play this class but if I did not enjoy playing it I just wouldn’t play it. Simple.
I agree that Havoc is a braindead, disgraceful spec and that it needs more complexity. Overall, I like your ideas, OP. 
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Well i feel like you and OP gonna get a disappointment because the braindead part is one that makes people love Havoc.
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