I would rather leave Havoc alone. Outside of Fury Warrior, its the only melee spec where you constantly have a button to push or something to do. Every other spec such as feral, UH DK, FDK, has downtime, resource + DoT management, and resulted in them being shadows of what they should be.
I understand a desire for complexity, but complexity without purpose only serves to frustrate the player and make the class less desirable to enjoy.
Well, you (OP) did ask how other felt about it. Just fine. Plenty of room to tweak and tinker with rotations/etc etc…and STILL be viable. I don’t math hammer the numbers, I just know what works. Havoc works wondrously for me.
There are talent options you can take that change thing up.
Like if you really wanted you could do a dark slash build, which isn’t too bad (single target only)
Dude. you knew this going into the class. its a meme at this point how easy DH are to play. 3 button and near top DPS.
Come to monk, we are fun and have 4 buttons, maybe 5 
Actually, we have 5 because Immolation Aura and Eye Beam can have their cooldown reduced significantly with haste and procs. I do believe monks have more than 4 buttons, though. But really, more buttons doesn’t necessarily mean more complex.
As you can see, our current talent system is deeply flawed because there are several dead talents across all classes, which makes for a more boring gameplay for everyone as there may only be 1, 2 if you are lucky, competitive builds using almost all same talents.
Just as an example, Havoc has the following dead talents that absolutely need reworking:
That’s 7 dead talents that don’t see any play out of memeing around with them. Momentum offers a different and fun game play in some cases, but has the downside of forced movement and using your movement abilities for damage (Fel Mastery has the same problem), which leaves you vulnerable to when you actually need them if you don’t properly plan it, so its a lot of trouble for not as much reward.
There are definitely ways in which they could give us more options if they more work into it, also new abilities coming the next Expansion.
If Havoc is boring to you, go play a different class. Plenty of people like it the way it is now.
Two ability resource types - In most regards, I actually find dual resources to have been not the best of ideas. Yes, they work for some classes, such as rogue where dual resources has been implemented since Vanilla, but for other classes the dual resources made the classes less fun - arcane mage and ret paladin are prime examples. I think adding a 2nd resource would be a horrible idea for Havoc.Ability proc mechanics No. Just freaking no. This game has enough rng, and more than enough rng-based classes. One of the major appeals of Havoc for a lot of people is the lack of RNG in the rotation.Ability synergy Not everything requires synergy among all abilities and talents to be effective. Having said that, if you play the meta build there is plenty of synergy for the class to be highly effective - one of the most effective in the game right now, actually.Remove Demon's Bite You want to remove an ability and replace it with a passive, and then cry about the class needing another ability? This makes no sense to me. Additionally, I have always found Demon’s Blade to be a horrifically boring talent.An engaging modification to the rotation during burst windows “Engaging” is a highly subjective term, and frankly, I think using the spriest void bolt is a horrible example. Spriests right now, for me, are the absolute least fun dps class in the game specifically because of how their burst window mechanic works. On top of which, with eye beam and meta, we already have a great burst window.give us another ability I don’t disagree with this one, but it needs to be something that fits in the with class. One or more of the old Legion artifact traits would be nice.Give us a baseline proc mechanic. Please, for the love of Bob, no. We do not need another RNG-based class. Adding rng procs always turns a class into an rng class. See: combat/outlaw rogue, enhance shaman, fire mage, arcane mage, frost mage, unholy dk, frost dk, feral druid, and balance druid. I’m sure I’m leaving some proc-based specs out, but all of those classes I mentioned rely too heavily on procs to be fun for a lot of people. Refer to my #2 point.Give us an additional resource bar. I believe I already addressed this with my first point, but I’ll expand. Too often, adding a second resource to a class has decreased its appeal.If you’re finding so many basic problems with Havoc, instead of trying to get a major rework for the class, maybe you should go play a different class. We could always use more enhance shammies and ww monks…
Actually we do have a lot of RNG already in the forms of:
Granted you don’t play with all of those at the same time, I’d still argue that’s plenty of RNG already.
This assumes you take certain builds, which I personally don’t because I hate those builds.
In addition, I have compiled a comprehensive list of specs that were made better by adding (or adding more) RNG:
1.
Do you also remember the nightmare it was in Legion, especially on our burst window, due to a truckload of RNG on our rotation? I’m glad they steered away from that and don’t wish it to return. It was too much of a feast or famine scenario.
It also didn’t work out well for Frost Mages in the beginning.
In Legion I was still using my rogue as my main. But yes, even when I did play my DH I steered clear of the Demon’s Blade build, despite the lower dps. I hate rng.
I guess I’m just not getting nearly as many replies from demon hunters who participate in higher levels of gameplay. Most people replying here i’m not seeing any mythic raiding or 2400+ arena experience. For the casual player, maybe a three button rotation is satisfying.
Issue here is that, in an mmorpg, the motivation to play a class should be because a person identifies with it thematically, not because they think it’s the easiest class to play. If three buttons works for the casual player, that’s fine, but i shouldn’t have to switch classes to enjoy a more engaging damaging rotation.
I play a demon hunter because i want to be a demon hunter, not because i think it’s the most fun mechanically (obviously). Defending the class as it is now by saying “go play another class” is not a viable argument. Every class should have a comparable number of core rotational abilities, augmented by talents and gear preferences.
If you were to look at a sim of a patchwerk type fight, the optimal pressing of buttons is depressing. After the opener, it is effectively 75%+:
blade dance
chaos strike
demon’s bite
Blade dance off cd. chaos strike when you have fury. demon’s bite when you don’t. This is mind-numbing
The issue here is that you’re talking about what the class is, rather than what it could or should be. Demon’s blade is rng, sure, but so is demon’s bite to a degree. Not to mention, demon’s bite is an uncreative filler. My thoughts are to rework them both, or remove demon’s bite altogether. I mention removing demon’s bite because that would open up room for more creative abilities to be added to the rotation.
Demon’s bite gets fury
Chaos strike spends fury
blade dance off cooldown
This is not an engaging rotation. It is uncreative and there’s so much room for improvement and that improvement can also capture our class identity much better.
I’ve raided mythic both in Legion and in BfA (until roughly the end of last tier), though I’ve swapped back and forth with my hunter a time or two during that. The rotation is fine. And again, it’s 5 buttons, which is the median for rotations across all DPS specs anyway.
I also take issue with you trying to pull the “you don’t raid mythic, your opinion is invalid” card. That’s called an ad hominem. You can’t context on actual merits, so you attack the credentials of the other party instead of their actual points.
You don’t. Take Dark Slash and Demon Blade if it tickles your fancy. If you care more about performance than the complexity of your rotation, then why the heck are you even in this thread?
Anyway, your opinion, as evidenced by this thread, is rather in the minority.
Again, 5 is the median. You seem to be forgetting that Immolation Aura and Eye Beam exist. Every class the in the game has a rotation of between 3 and 8 abilities, and the vast majority have either 4 or 5.
That isn’t the point i’m making. I’m saying casual players have offered their opinions, and i’m also curious to hear about players who engage in higher levels of gameplay. Pressing a few buttons in lfr is one thing. pressing them in mythic content or high rated arena is another.
Why would i take dark slash when it performs so poorly? Of course i care about performance, and of course i care about complexity. Wasn’t the idea always supposed to be “a player has a choice between a simpler and more complicated damaging rotation, with the latter awarding better numbers if utilized correctly”?
In the case of the havoc demon hunter, a simple damage rotation outperforms classes who have to work much harder. That’s not a good thing. I’m also fine with my opinion being in the minority. I’m in the wow forums, which appears to be the hub of more casual players.
I don’t forget they exist, but again they’re not engaging abilities. I press them when they’re off cooldown, and they’re both 20+ second cooldowns, augmented slightly by haste. big deal. None of the abilities relate to each other, proc off each other, or synergize in any meaningful way. Meta is a bi-product of eye beam, and it buffs damage. it otherwise does nothing to the rotation - i’m still doing what i was doing outside of metamorphosis.
I’m a Mythic Raider and also do some moderately high M+, granted I’m not the top dog out there. I don’t have many achievements on the PvP side of the game because I stopped doing PvP in Legion, so there’s that.
This was brought up many times, but this illusion that Demon Hunter is somehow the easiest class out there it not true. Every class has pretty much the same amount of buttons and not all of them necessarily synergize with one another.
Demon Hunters don’t actually literally do that as you need to pay attention not to overcap Fury so you don’t press Immolation Aura and Demon’s Bite on cooldown. You also want to pool some Fury before using Eye Beam if you are not running Blind Fury, so you don’t use it on cooldown either. You don’t mindlessly spam Chaos Strike or Demon’s Bite because you don’t want to lose a GCD on Blade Dance.
Now, now. Demonic Appetite is directly related to both Chaos Strike and Eye Beam as you need to use Chaos Strike to proc Souls to reduce the cooldown of Eye Beam. Also both Demon’s Bite and Demon Blades relate to Fel Blade. I just think that Fel Blade should also grant Demon Blades because it feels horrible to have one of them only.
Five buttons are not that bad. And those ones you use actually give good dps.
Feral has like 8 : rake, thrash, shred, brutal slash/swipe, tigers fury, ferocious bite, rip/primal wrath, Bloodtalons.
In addition to that there is more than these watching energy, right abilites to use depending on energy, snap shotting bleeds. Timing brutal with tigers fury, not letting brutal slash cap at 3 when tigers fury on CD. Ferocious bite with bloodtalons at 5 combo points and wait for 50 energy to bite. And when rake is about to fall off might even need to hold applying a bit to until tigers fury is off CD and time it blood talons. What I am trying to say is some classes are punished more for making mistakes. Overcapping fury is less punishing than being deficient of energy.
While I played my DH I did not have spend too much effort like I do on my feral for the same ilvl previously. But I did find the DH play style boring for my play and stopped playing it. The guildies that had ok dps with destro warlock/monk/ret pally but now are doing significantly way better with their DH when they started to play it after swapping recently now to their main dps class. Now you cannot say the classes are bad cause there are those ppl in these classes that pull big numbers but it is skill based. Common response of those who swapped to DH said are the play is easier with DH and the effort to put in to get the same amount of dps as their previous class is less.
The next raid is looking melee favourable which is going to be dominated by fury warriors and DH.
Or maybe people don’t agree with your garbage opinions, and that in your self righteous ignorance, you’re wanting to change something that doesn’t need changing 
There is thematics, there is enjoyment of gameplay. I love the aesthetic of warlock, but I don’t enjoy the gameplay. Not because of its difficulty.
So I don’t play it… Simple
Havoc had only improved since Legion, with the reduction of RNG on its resources. What are you even taking about!
It was relatively simple when you first started on the DH. Again, don’t blame others for your own stupid faults
There’s your problem then…
You’re wanting your DH to be something it isn’t, and never has been!
That’s on you…
You’re looking at one character, which has been casual for the past 2 expansions. Don’t think I don’t know what I’m talking about because I only do up to heroic raids now, and avoid pvp. I was once a top progression raider, and for 3 expansion was in a raid group or guild that was getting first three kills. Don’t try to invalidate me because you think I’m not up to your standards of understanding the game.
Aren’t all fillers uncreative…? And you don’t have to remove one ability to add another. Also, my point is that demon’s blade is more boring than the current alternative. It essentially turns resource generation into an unreliable passive. Nor do I play this class because I find it easy - frankly, all classes are pretty dang easy at this point. I like the class. I like the mechanics, I like the thematics. I also like retadin, ww monk, both dps dks, and enhance shammies, and some of their mechanics are pretty terrible right now.
It’s not the best, nor is it the worst. But then, what class has a complicated rotation right now? Maybe enhance shaman? Though that’s more because of the rng built into the class. Complicated doesn’t mean better.
edit: grammar error
This is exactly why the game is where it is atm. Most players are casual and this is to whom Blizz is targeting the game mechanics for. The top of the curve these days are heroic raiders. Not many are doing Mythic content. Evey so often MMO- Champ has the Blizz graph of players that complete the content on what level and mythic clearing is always a very small sampling. Hardcore players will still play no matter what. Blizz is appealing to the masses that dominate their paying customer base. Casuals.
Also, this.
I too used to raid semi-seriously. Always at least clearing heroic content and getting AOTC. I have been playing since vanilla. But over the years my life has changed. Kids, job, sports and other family commitments have put a serious dent in my time and availability to play. But I still love the game and log on to see friends and do things that aren’t as big a time sink as the old days. I am a filthy casual. But I’ve seen the evolution of this game. From the 27 button rotation of Warlocks and Feral. To the current state of 5 buttons for all. I understand what you’re saying and it’s cool you want a more complicated toon that is more complex. But that bus left the station years ago. Blizz is catering to the player that wants to enjoy the game and doesn’t have 30 hrs a week just to master a toon. Or to raid. They want anyone to log on and be able to pick up and play. So while you have every right to wax nostalgic for a more complicated and in-depth rotation and character development, it just doesn’t make fiscal sense for Blizz to do that. So they have changed the modality of all their toons to be able to accommodate this new reality. And one doesn’t have to be a mythic raider or have a 2400+ pvp rating to know that or chime in. For in fact they are a very small sampling of the player base. It’s the casual player pressing a few buttons in lfr that blizz is making their bread and butter on these days. Thinking perhaps if they can log on, pick up a toon and have some success they will become more involved and graduate to higher levels of raiding and pvp. So while you may not like what’s being said it’s just how it is.
This is known as an ad-hominem, and it is a stupidly poor one. Many individuals including myself have competitive experience outside of and within WoW. The discussion at hand has nothing at all to do with raiding or PvP. Let alone, WoW was designed with the casual player in mind. Do you remember the one button rotation for classes in Vanilla? I do. It was not a complex matter to say the least.
The world does not cater to you. If you wish to play a more engaging class that also has good damage, I would recommend playing a Feral. You could play an Unholy DK, but the numbers are not nearly as satisfying.
And they do. That includes Unholy whose damage rotation primarily rotates around 4 buttons.
Engagement is purely in the eye of the beholder. Do not be surprised, however, that those who enjoy the class as it is now, do not desire for it to be changed into something needlessly complex.
I love DH as it is. The demonic appetite rotation feels super smooth and powerful when you are geared up.
With Furious Gaze and Eyes of Rage gone in Shadowlands I am worried it will feel like slow trash. One thing I though would be cool was if we could get a way to stay in meta longer, not reduce its cooldown. Maintain something to keep a Meta bar from emptying.