Damage that is mostly reliant on a 2 minute cooldown, that is still somehow less st and aoe than other classes 30s-45s cds, less dps in static st, less burst, only way to stop cc is preemptive with glimpse, but of course no way to remove roots or anything even close to what warrior gets, a terrible 1.5 minute ability called hunt that still has a nerfs from shadowlands era complaints and breaks cast from the most minor camera angle changes, what’s the point of playing this class? For the cool jump animation? Why does this class have to be bad because people are mad about how it performed in DF? Can we get together and do something about this?
Even a 20% st buff would almost feel not enough, it’s actually insane that this class is being punished because people see big numbers on targets with pets or irrelevant adds that pad the end result.
Preach bro! Spit them facts lol. To be honest though, I don’t want anymore x% damage buffs on abilities and such, I’d like to see QoL improvements and even some skill reworks if possible… defensive buffs… ect ECT… but I feel like they don’t have a clue what to do with us, we’re practically ignored.
the actual lack of any acknowledgement that it is severely underperforming is insane
What is this a PVP thread? IDK anymore since I keep seeing blatantly false hyperbole post non stop anymore on these forums. Because Havoc is in no way worst melee in the game. Arms is no where near close to Havoc in Mythic Raiding, so I’m guessing this is a PvP post that was poorly labeled?
Arms is already better at ST than Havoc. Also, wait for next week.
You guys are completely clueless, just because you see Havoc “average” on all bosses you think the spec is fine.
If you don’t want to delve into logs, then please stop giving your opinion about balance.
Yeah my opinion is always on the PvP side of things, I don’t think it’s the worst mele in the game at all though regardless. I’d say it’s pretty mid right now though. My biggest issue is the lack of any attention we’re getting in terms of QoL or changes that I know could be done. Havoc just feels ignored when every patch has been % changes tops. I’m assuming PvE is good for us and that’s why they don’t care.
Worst melee in the game is nothing close to worst ST damage in the game.
You’re like a media reporter.
“Hey I saw this guy run over this dog for no reason”
Media - “Man says guy ran over a Big Dog for no reason” - Claim is false, no Large dogs were present when this happened. Only a dead Chihuahua was found in the area.
Oh, but it might very well be.
Do you know THE ONLY thing Havoc is decent at? Decent means above average, it doesn’t mean the strongest, btw.
3-4 second AoE burst on 40s/2m timings.
That’s literally all.
It’s only strong on literal add padding. Any adds that survive longer than that, Havoc plummets.
Sustained AoE/High M+? Havoc might as well not exist
Single Target? Bruh, all specs below us are getting buffed
Yeah, when literally most of the bosses have that niche/profile you’re going to obviously see the spec propped up.
What’s going to happen when we see a situation like Aberrus? Havoc will remain a below average M+ spec and it’ll be super low on All bosses because its ST tuning is absolutely miserable. And the spec is not nearly as strong in AoE as it should be to justify how weak it is in ST.
For the sake of comparison, our profile is extremely similar to Frost DK and Fury Warrior. BOTH of those do higher AoE AND ST than we do.
exactly why the spec needs single target buffs, not more buffs so it can kill little gremlin adds or bm pets better
Can’t buff ST without making AoE borderline broken.
In the 90th percentile havoc DHs are near the top. In lower percentile DHs are mid pack. There is a big difference between a great DH, good DH, average DH, and bad DH. It’s the player 
Stop. Looking. At. All. Bosses.
It’s a worthless statistic.
Are you saying that a boss that spawns 100 adds that die in 1 second exactly every 40s might skew the results if you look at all bosses?
youre making too much sense the forum retards will get mad
Rankings Per Boss
Ulgrax - 4th
Bloodbound- 12th
Sikran - 21st
Rasha - 5th
Broodtwister - 10th
Princess - 20th
Court - 15th
Queen - 4th
also this is a pvp post primarily, i actually am not injecting my opinions into pve at all and do not care to talk about that, pvp dh needs st buffs, now begone pve yapper
Go to the pvp forums then lol that’s where people post about pvp…
ok then lets talk pve, you brought up stats that do nothing but prove the class is dogsht even in pve, at best its mid at killing bosses with adds, whats your point? insanely cringe how hard you are working to be disingenuous about the state of this class. You bring a dh for brand, thats it, whats the next lie?
Yes. Because of AoE burtst pad.
Congratulations, you’ve learned what Havoc is decent at. It sucks at everything else.
I’ve seen some idiots saying “we’re within 5% of the mid in ST, so we’re fine” which make me facepalm IRL.