bump /10char
I popped this on the Tuning Thread but I 'm sure no one will see it.
This is a joke. Havoc has no real AoE outside of a limp 4 minute, excuse me 3 and a half minute, CD that only gets a mention because it applies Sinful Brand. Not to mention that 30% to 40% of our single target damage comes from juggling that DoT that no one wants. Blade dance is tuned so poorly its an actual dps increase to ignore blade dance and hope for RNG Cycle of Hatred procs so that you can keep up your single target DoT. Thatâs right, our AoE attack, thats on a small CD mind you, Blade Dance is worth less then keeping a DoT from our Covenant ticking.
iâve talked at length in the tuning thread already, and many more before it on Havocs issues. Still continue to ignore havoc.
I mean just look at havocs threads in Demon Hunter Forums. Itâs full of cosmetic changes and wants, people that play havoc seem to care more about their DH forms transmogability over how the class feels, performs, and plays.
I enjoy Havoc because of the freedom of movement it provides, but lets be real our only strength is steady damage.
Can we pop out 12k dps on a boss? Sure, but if there is a need for any kind of burst or god forbid adds come out our only real option is to just keep chugging along like we were.
M+ is really where we fall off though. I feel useless unless its tyrannical week, and even then Iâm just there to whittle the boss down while the hunter/lock/monk takes care of the trash. The audacity to have our AoE fury spender on a CD, target capped and make it do next to nothing, even with the appropriate talents and conduits, is just laughable.
We have a single dps spec with no options to switch if times get rough. Heck we canât even switch covenants like some classes do.
Our main draw at the end of the day is to buff the Locks. Oh and imprison when we need to skip trash.
That is most likely due to your issue really only being a problem in pick up based groups put together on the fly for M+ keys of 25 or higher.
PvP players donât care about AE, I think it would be nearly impossible to build a group for Arena or Rated where AE was the focus.
Raiders only care about AE for padding out their DPS on adds. Raid leaders know to filter down the damage, weâre not fooling anyone with a 40K DPS on Anduin where 3/4 of that comes from the intermission trash.
Thatâs not saying that our AE disability isnât a problem, just want to focus this so you donât think that itâs the only problem or even the #1 problem.
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I agree the AoE isnât the main problem, but it is an embarrassment in M+. The main problem is that Sinful Brand and Unity are the only things propping up our spec. The last thing I thought Iâd be doing when playing my DH is worrying about keeping a DoT up all the time.
To add to this our Tier, which by the looks of it weâre going to be stuck with through S4, is nothing. 1 second off a 4 minute cooldown for ever 60 energy you spend is laughable at best. The additional time in Meta is meaningless as well since tuning with Demonic has made time in Meta hardly noticeable.
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the issue is not only a problem in 25+ keys.
The issue lies within all aspects of the game right now. We have no on demand burst AoE, even our AoE that we do have does no damage. So almost all fights because they are and have some form of cleave in the current raid, havoc is just a boss killer.
I have no problem with classes being boss killers, but thatâs not havoc. Havoc was andis a cleave spec, itâs just so poorly tuned that the only damage we do comes from a covenant dot, which means maintaining that dot at all costs is whatâs important for damage. We arenât a dot classâŚ
3 Likes
Posting just to add another voice onto this.
Havoc AoE does feel garbage. On keys I feel like Iâm not contributing much to my group other than a flat 5% magic damage buff and stuns/darkness.
What I think should help is either bring the 4pc buff to 30 fury consumed so it would bring meta to a ~2.5-3 min cd, or give Eye Beam a 5-8 target dmg reduced cap instead of 2.
Or both, which is honestly the best thing right now and wouldnât ramp up much our damage in single target.
They need to start fixing havoc soon. Just like WW we need our baseline kit buffed and venthyr covenant dot nerfed to compensate. 30% of our damage done by a covenant ability in AoE and ST is unacceptable gameplay, and will not fair well going into an expansion that is removing borrowed power as a system.
Havoc needs some serious attention, our 4pc needs a closer look and i believe that you are correct in turning it into the old eyes of raddon leggo instead of this budget version that literally does nothing for our meta uptime, gives no extra meta in raid, and contributes in zero way to our damage profile over any length of time.
WHY you want nerf ventyr skill to compensate? you want to do unviable being ventyr? you want to buff other skills and nerf other skills to compensate? is to do the same as nothing. i increase my dmg with others skills 10% but y compansete nerf skill of ventyr 10% and still doing same dmg.
It is at the point where vengeance does as much or more aoe damage as havoc.
Vengeance tier set is a lot more fun and useful to boot. It is a bit ridiculous.
Start queueing as dps and ninja swap to vengeance right before the key is put in? Is that what weâre supposed to do now?
well what i said went directly over your head. What iâm saying is that come DF, havoc will do quite literally no damage because the only ability we currenly have doing damage is from a covenant.
What my comment specifically states is that in order to get ahead of the curve, blizzard should be looking to tune havoc in a way that doesnât make us OP, but compensates our core rotational damage if they decide to nerf venthyr in this process. Overall i canât see how 30% of our power being tied to a covenant ability is acceptable in their eyes, so my solution is to nerf venthyr and buff us to compensate. at no point did i say that the buff to core abilities should be equal to that of the venthyr. If you would have read all of my posts, youâd see that that is NOT what my outlook on DH currently, but obviously youâve just decided to neglect the fact that this conversation has been on going and chose one post to fixate on.
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Interesting. As a new player to Demon Hunters starting in 9.0 my impression of the Havoc spec is that itâs a steady single target spec. Every attack we have which hits more than one target has a significant cooldown (Eye Beam, Blade Dance, Immolation Aura) or does very little damage and is meant for utility (VR, AE stun, Throw Glaive).
you started playing havoc in 9.0, right after we were just stripped of our borrowed power and forcefully thrown into playing the most degenerate builds to have even a sliver of relevancy.
Vengeance was taken in raid over havoc due to havocs severe lack of damage because of our severe nerfing going into SL. Our legendaries were far from synergistic to the spec, and that was obvious.
Almost all havocs abilities are on a long CD BTW. We have a builder, which you can take away and have a passive builder, ands you have chaos strike as a spender, and blade dance. Blade dance âshouldâ be used rotationally and on CD, but with itâs tuning this has made that button irrelevant, and the fact that first blood is on a very conflicting row with CoH that forces degenerate chaos strike spam.
youâll note though, that all abilities cleave in some fashion, we are a cleave spec. we ewere designed as a cleave spec. blizzardâs tuning is the problem here, not the abilities on CDâs.
2 Likes
If talented and/or the situation calls for it.
Iâll concede the point that the talents for Blade Dance conflict with our best abilities, which has the effect of not taking those talents which results in no situation in which it is valuable to hit Blade Dance.
Just need to see Blade Dance buffed by a percentage in my opinion (for 9.x). If it dealt more damage it would be enough to make it worth hitting again in 3+ target situations. So 20% more damage doesnât seem unreasonable.
For 10.0 I would hope that a significant number of âborrowedâ powers return as talents. I fully expect to see Sinful Brand as a talent choice. Hopefully it all works in such a way that we can exercise our options.
Its a baseline talent already, the problem with it is that without firstblood its not worth pressing. It also does very little damage in its AOE, most of the damage from blade dance is from first blood and its initial target interaction. A button as part of an already small baseline toolkit shouldnt just not be pressed because you dont have a talent.
Yeah no thanks, i think the dh community is deadset on having this boring and frankly bland ability entirely forgotton. The hunt is a much more flavor intensive and dh toolkit synchronizing talent that doesnt force us into degenerately spamming chaos strike to maintain a dotâŚwe are not a dot class
That will most likely be on the same line/cost as Sinful Brand and Fodder to the Flames talents.
I think youâre confusing two issues, or conflating them? First Blood as a talent has little to do with the lack of AE/Cleave damage. First Blood makes an AE/Cleave ability valuable when only a single target exists.
The issue with lack of AE/Cleave damage is due to the relative weakness of the base AE damage of Blade Dance.
The base damage, no talent, no conduit, of Blade Dance needs to be sufficient that as a Venthyr Havoc Demon Hunter with Cycle of Hatred that we should be compelled (but not required) to use Blade Dance whenever three or more targets are in range.
I think that would be pretty balanced, when there is one target and Iâm specialized as a single target damage dealer, I should ignore cleave/AE until at least three targets will be hit and be rewarded for using it when three-five targets are hit.
Nope i said exactly what the problem with blade dance is without getting into specifics. It is you that was under the wrong impression, and when corrected you try to verbatum repeat back to me the information from my initial post about blade dances aoe damage.
This was your initial post even claiming you think we are an ST spec. Also noting you think that BD is on a long CD which just isnt true when you factor in eyebeam haste for DS aswell.
Like, what side of the fence are you on?
Baseline slow, Darkness usable while stunned and Leech talent or Netherwalk baseline, vengeful retreat as root breaker itâs all it take. [PVP]
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Please keep your pvp comments to pvp specific threads. This thread has nothing, and will not have anything to do with the concept of pvp.