Have the graveyard spawns in AV always been so one sided?

watched a video the other day, a horde leaving the rock of durotan the AV spawn point of horde running to IBGY at the beginning of the game. In contrast for alliance we have SHGY from spawn point to first graveyard the guy on the horde was there in max 10 seconds while it takes about 30-40 for alliance to reach SHGY from their cave base. Was this intended? I posted another post about land imbalance in this BG that got some feedback. But watching this video of this guy using a back door to get to our aid station. “It took him max 90 seconds by the way, alliance to the same point in the horde base takes at least a minute longer to get to.” That is another reason for the current 99 pct win rate that the horde has in this BG these graveyard spawns need to be changed.

What I would love is to give us a weekend where alliance had the horde side and horde had the alliance side so they could see how actually awful it is.


Lets be honest, you can’t win a war if you can’t win a single battle. The Alliance team usually loses every skirmish, usually by a large margin, that’s the problem with AV. When we clash, the Alliance usually loses every “fair fight”. One side is clearly stronger, man for man, than the other. This is because the Horde that go into AV are better geared than the Alliance that go into AV. It is really that simple.

The people who go into AV are very clear on their intentions, they want rep and all the easy honor (LTs and Galv) they can scrap up for a 30-45 minute window.

Many players have played both sides for years. I would love to see BGs ( not in Classic) where the map is flipped, that does sound pretty cool.


1.12 AV was a mistake.


I’d level a horde rogue but man… it took alot of work to get this geared :stuck_out_tongue: albeit the 25 pct stun resist from orc is so sick… true though human’s 3 min stealth detection bonus is nice but innate 25 pct … so sick.

Saying we lose almost every skirmish is complete BS. You can pull whatever you want out of your hat, doesn’t make it true. The layout is the major contributing factor and should have been fixed. All these purists crying about #nochanges are usually horde for this topic anyways. The starting point for horde at the very least should have been pushed south.


ya, i agree, it should be more south to match our start.

We got the wrong AV and queue system for Classic but the original intent of the map was to have the strengths and weaknesses for each team balanced out instead of a straight up mirrored map.

The “problems” that stem from this is the player base’ refusal to do anything other than zerg each other.


What’s funny is every single “pounce” i have done on an Orc has worked…I know an outlier but I laugh every time it works.

I abandoned my UD mage because of long queues.

Fell free to delude yourself.Changing the map won’t change the result because it is not the issue.


Talk about deluded.

Alliance doesn’t lose every skirmish. Not even close.

Claiming this isn’t a map issue shows a complete lack of knowledge about the map. Is the Alliance cave behind IWB? No. It’s far north by the base. Is the Horde cave far south by their base? No. It’s behind TP.

Is SF the same distance for both teams? No. It’s 20 seconds faster for Horde.

Is the middle of the map “actually” the middle of the map? No.

Imagine if the middle of the map were behind Galv. Imagine that Alliance reached SF 20 seconds faster than Horde. Imagine if the Alliance cave were behind IWB and the Horde cave far south by their base.

Alliance wouldn’t worry about a soft cap on SHGY, just like Horde currently don’t worry about an IBGY soft cap because the cave is right there. Alliance would no longer have to split their forces between defending SHGY and launching an offense on IBGY, they could throw everything they have at IBGY, just as the Horde throw themselves at SHGY.

I can’t even fathom anyone arguing the Horde are just better or Alliance don’t try hard enough. Is the current education system so poor that people are unable to grasp the concepts of distance, time, and simple math?


No, they used to revive you at the cave only if none of you’re factions starting GYs were available.

The most obvious problem caused presently is alliance are sent to the cave after SP is taken, instead of AS.

The map is heavily skewed and bugged.

Horde can get to SF 10-20 seconds faster. Alliance that die ON THE SF FLAG get to res all the way back at Aid Station instead of the next closest graveyard.


Yep there’s that, too. If the Horde cave were far south by their base and they died at SF, imagine the uproar if they rezzed at the cave instead of IBGY. Blizzard would have fixed that long ago.

One of the many obvious problems.

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Didn’t horde used to say alliance had the advantage on av?

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Dont know what game yall are playing but all I see are honor and rep farmers in the form of premades and pugs.

I can’t believe I have to keep on explaining this. The Horde players who go into AV are stronger (gear and level) than their Alliance counterparts . This isn’t 'better" so spare me your misguided tribalism. It’s pointing out a fact that is EASILY proved or disproved, go into an AV and take a census of level and gear of all participants, observe results. Keep doing that until you have a pile of data.
I am sure that is what Blizzard has been doing, that is why they haven’t done anything except fix bugs (like druid holding and the infamous “back door” (that a handful of people actually knew about and used ).

Here is how I know you are wrong.

  1. Vanilla didn’t play out like this, in fact , on my battle group , it played out in the opposite manner. (Horde side instant queues/ Alliance far better geared)
  2. Alliance pre-mades managed to flip the script…HOW?! They were better geared and organized than their Horde counterparts.
  3. AV weekends the Alliance has a much higher success rate HOW?!?! because AV on the weekends is now worth the time and effort of Geared up Alliance players who are usually premading AB and WSG for PvP

Those three examples PROVE that map imbalances are NOT that big an issue. Certainly not of the magnitude the forum harpies claim.


Yes. AV was often a humiliating experience for Horde back in Vanilla BUT the queues were instant and it was less humiliating than going against Alliance pre-mades in WSG and AB.

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I think this is intentional to mitigate the bridge advantage and give a path south and potential victory.

No they aren’t.


Clearly you don’t understand TIME, DISTANCE or MATH. Why did you ignore all of these things?

  1. In Vanilla Horde didn’t play scorched earth. When they began playing this meta in TBC, Blizzard added resources and changed the Horde cave location. They changed the location because this was a huge advantage.

  2. The win ratio when Alliance were doing pre mades was not as skewed as it currently is. They were not better geared. That is an assumption pulled out of nowhere. They were better organized, and they HAD to be, and even so, still lost around 30% of the matches. I know. My main was there.

  3. AV weekends don’t see “a much higher success rate.” I know. I was there. I got this toon to exalted winning only four games. Four. Three of those were on AV weekends where I played dozens and dozens of games.

So this wouldn’t make any difference:

Imagine if the middle of the map were behind Galv. Imagine that Alliance reached SF 20 seconds faster than Horde. Imagine if the Alliance cave were behind IWB and the Horde cave far south by their base.

If you aren’t trolling and actually believe this, then I suggest you try to learn the concepts of distance, time, and math.