He’s hiding in plain sight.
With an army of assassins over looking him.
Also weird to call him a coward when he’s out in the open.
Cause most rogues hide.
I don’t like Jaina. I don’t know why. My friend loves her! Named a dog after her, but… yeah. Idk.
1 Like
Behind the walls of SW.
It’s easy to be bold when you’re in no danger…
That’s like saying a guard is a coward for using the road…
Not at all the same. A guard is supposed to patrol.
A master assassin and spymaster should be assassinating and spying.
He should be out there trying to find the threats, not hanging out in SW where there is no threat.
What is he even doing? 
i hate tyrande. i get made fun of pretty constantly for that but she’s so annoying that i would happly deal with BFA jaina forever over her
He’s assigning assassins to positions, putting spies in various places, even the trade district is full of spies.
The cheese vendor is a spy for light sake!
I don’t know about you guys, but Alexstrasza is starting to get on my nerves.
Otherwise I don’t really hate any of the characters, not enough to see them atomized at least.
1 Like
Sylvanas went from one of my favorite characters to most hated. And to help understand just how much she was absolutely destroyed from WC3 to Shadowlands I’ll have to start from the beginning.
In WC3 RoC’s campaign she was the first and last line for defense for Silvermoon against Arthas and his new buds the Scourge. He was seeking the Sunwell to use it’s energies to bring back Kel’thusad as a powerful Lich. Sylvanas, as Ranger-General, fought back with everything they had but ultimately her armies, and her, fell to the invading Scourge.
As a final middle finger to Sylvanas’ tenacity, he raised her as a banshee to serve him for the rest of time, and be a witness to the carnage to follow. In addition, said she was responsible for the suffering of her people because she fought back, and even locked her mutilated body up.
He really didn’t like Sylvanas.
During the events of WC3 TFT, Ner’zhul’s grasp on the undead faltered enough for Sylvanas to regain her free will, albeit still a shadow of her former self. The Dreadlords assisting the Scourge took note of this as well, and worked out a deal with her to help them. She accepted, albeit on her own terms.
She did successfully ambush Arthas and sure enough revenge was the first thing on her mind, but she was stopped and with Kel’thusad and his own army approaching, her chance at revenge was halted. Considered a traitor by her own people, she had nowhere to go after.
The Dreadlords, namely Varimathras, said they would be the new rulers of the newly ‘formed’ Plaguelands, and invited Sylvanas to continue serving them. Now free and rightfully not trusting the cunning Dreadlords, she refused despite threats that her meager army of also-freed Undead would have no hope against the very hostile wildlife, and other unseen dangers.
However. Sylvanas had banshees. And if banshees are good at one thing, it’s possession. Possessing some choice leaders of various factions lingering in the area, she soon had her own army and defeated Varimathras. He begged for his life which would have been useless, if he did not have knowledge of his brethren and their locations.
Manipulating everyone’s favorite Human xenophobe Garithos who was just previously being manipulated by one of the Dreadlords, the other two Dreadlords were defeated with one being executed (with some hesitation as Dreadlord laws dictated that Dreadlords could not kill one another) by Varimathras, and Garithos soon joining him.
Thus through some scrappy improvision the Forsaken were born: Sylvanas and Varimathras would rule the Plaguelands as a free nation for those who would shun their existence. With the fallen Lordaeran’s catacombs under her control she soon amassed an undead army.
And soon after a fellow who simply called himself Putress introduced himself to the brand new leader, and spoke of a new Plague to utilize against Sylvanas’ eternal enemy…but that’s a tale for another day.
Realizing she needed allies, she sent emissaries to both the Alliance and Horde. Only the ones that went to the also-newly-formed Horde returned: Oddly enough the ones sent to the Alliance were never seen again.
The Tauren, particularly one Carine Bloodhoof, gave the Forsaken an in, and pled their plight to Thrall. Thrall allowed them into the Horde, which was mostly composed of other isolated, likely forsaken individuals. The Forsaken fit right on in.
Despite this, Sylvanas is like that one individual in a Teams meeting who nods and acts like they’re going along with your plans but honestly didn’t care in the slightest. With her immediate threats removed and allies secured, she was able to focus work on her ultimate goal: The death of Arthas.
The Forsaken had to keep up the appearance of being all “For The Horde” and such while working on some vile and extremely dangerous things right under their nose. The only pure hearted exception to this was support to the Blood Elves, which Sylvanas still loved and cared for very much.
I thought the dangerous game she played with everyone, including the entirety of the Horde, was a very interesting dynamic, and post-Wrathgate even more so. She played her hand and rightfully had everyone, especially Thrall, worried to the point Thrall put Kor’kron guards into Undercity to observe them.
By then it was too late: Sylvanas had everything she need to finally organize the death of Arthas, and said death finally came. Finally, her long quest for vengeance, suffering under this curse of undeath for many, many years, forsaking everything she once was, came to an end.
And all that was left was emptiness. Without her quest for revenge, she had nothing, especially after the Wrathgate debacle. This lead to a jump right off the top of Icecrown Citadel. It was time for this suffering to end.
…And here comes the wacky Val’kyr party gathering and being like “Hey we’re unemployed can you hire us we’re good at raising undead.”
From Cata onwards it was a sudden, rapid 180 to what her character was. She hated what she became, she hated losing everything she once cherished, she hated being seen as a monster. Now, all of a sudden, she was very much into these things.
It went from “What joy is there in this curse?” Which was one of her most memorable voice lines in WC3 and WoW, to “Wow this curse kinda owns actually.” She became this blatant Saturday morning cartoon villain doing more and more vile things even as everyone is openly saying, “No, Sylvanas, don’t do that please.”
With her newfound army of Val’kyr she set about resurrecting everyone she could as an undead. She blatantly practiced necromancy right in front of Garrosh’s face when he brought up what the difference is between her and the Lich King (Who she rightfully hated, in case you forgot how much she didn’t like what he did to her and what he made her become) and her only response was a snarky, “I serve the Horde.”
She comments about how she can raise the Regent-Lord of Silvermoon’s troops should they fall, including him, which he wasn’t too pleased with during the Siege of Orgrimmar. She actively kidnaps and kills off innocent people, including Argent Crusaders, for vain things like making her longtime pupil slash crush Nathanos look pretty again.
Then after Vol’jin was Warchief for about five minutes and got killed off by some random Felguard goon, in what I assume was a Fel induced haze (Officially the ‘Loas’ told him) he assigns her Warchief which just made everything worse.
I think the War of Thorns has been talked about to death, but I found it humorous that Sylvanas not only orchestrated the destruction of Teldrassil, but Undercity as well, giving Nathanos her bow to do the deed. In one fell swoop she destroyed two civilizations, including one she formed herself, one that she, at one point, was caring for.
Somewhere that changed.
Shadowlands happened and even still I struggle to grasp what happened. I have the entire Wiki up to make sure to keep my memory honest and even then I struggle to fully understand just what, exactly, she was even doing anymore. Granted I treat much of Shadowlands like fanfiction gone unchecked.
It just hurt to see a character I once thought of as a tragic, flawed antihero slowly twisting into this stupidly over-the-top villainess that seemed to have her motivations change at the tip of a hat to the point no one, Alliance, Horde, Sylvanas, the writers, knew what she was going to do next.
It pains me to this day.
I remember my very first character, before dedicating myself to Night Elves at the start, being a Forsaken warrior. I was brand, brand new. I thought the idea of playing an undead with a relatively shady faction to be interesting.
It was the last undead I ever ended up playing. I just couldn’t come up with a character idea that both made sense and would be fun to play since Sylvanas basically gutted the Forsaken entirely. At lest the Night Elves still have vengeance to cling to, what do the Forsaken have to do now, outside of being fodder for the Horde?
That’s my (long winded) feelings of Sylvanas, and why I hate her as a character.
6 Likes
Some people in North America, not saying which country loves to talk in absolutes. They hate this, or that is goat. There is no in between for most people, and I try not to think in absolutes like this, but it is a common practice amongst those people in just about every facet of life.
That’s not what I’m hearing. I have made the point that the anti SL crowd is just expressing an opinion about SL being bad writing but they are stating that it is more than an opinion, it’s actual fact.
So I asked for them to prove their facts. So far they have not done so, they just insist that it is fact.
It was the worst from a business point of view but it is not clear if this was
- Bad writing,
- Good writing that people had some reason not to want to see (i.e. after life material that offended them),
- Mechanics that bothered high end players or
- COVID problems that disrupted the development and game play
- Tons of positive buzz about FF14
- Multi million sub YouTube CCs farming for clicks by trash talking the expansion.
There are many things that could have impacted the expansion.
By the way I like the way you added the head slap to cover for the fact that you couldn’t come up with a rational response to my comment about new background material not being the same as a retcon.
I’m pretty sure the love interest of Sylvanas Windrunner will make a return at some point. He’s in the Maw where Sylvanas is, and she’s currently down there freeing all the souls from it.
2 Likes
Tired of every expac being alliance focused man
2 Likes
Not hate, that’s too strong of a word, but I’ve disliked Jaina for many years. She should have stayed in her tower… studying.
2 Likes
The majority opinion has been that it’s bad… that’s not up for debate. You don’t have to agree, that’s just the reality of it… but yes, it’s all opinion based.
You’re just deluding yourself because you like the expansion.
People clearly didn’t like the expansion, why do you think that is?
Also, FF14 story is also in every single way better than WOW’s story.
1 Like
Sure. WoW hasnt cared about its story at any point in time. Its weird. But they just always phoned it in.
I’m sure you’re in the minority on that. I feel a lot of people including myself would say WOTLK’s continued story was peak WOW and enjoyable.
1 Like
Not hard to do when you simply phone it in as a conclusion to Warcraft 3.
It’s not? Show us any vote or unbiased poll of the millions of people who play this game that shows a majority did not like Shadowlands.
Forget forums, they are incredibly biased toward people who have something to complain about.
Thank you for your opinion.
