Well when you are talking about good versus bad writing “truth” is based on the criteria used to judge the writing. Here is an example of bad writing that is quite common.
Say that someone says “The event was a fail”. That is poor writing. It should say “The event was a failure”.
The reason is that in this sentence the word “failure” is a noun serving as a predicate nominative defining the subject of the sentence. The word “fail” is a verb and it is syntactically incorrect (or bad writing) to use a verb as a predicate nominative.
So the question is; what rules of syntax or semantics were violated in Shadowlands that would define the writing as bad writing beyond just being bad in someone’s opinion?
So, you don’t actually have a point? Just non-sense about about some phrasing and grammar? This isn’t English class and we can either discuss the story or you can move on, which will it be?
You said it was bad writing. An English class is a class in which they talk about the concepts that go into determining what is and what is not good writing.
Now if you just want to talk about the story then fine. If you want us to express opinions, no problem. You didn’t like the story, I did. But if you are going to say it is objectively bad writing then that means it is bad writing with respect to some well excepted standard.
In that case it should be easy to say what that standard is and how this particular story comes up short with regard to that standard.
I stand by what I said… BAD WRITING, period. I’m not gonna argue with you about definitions and semantics, get over it. We can discuss the story or you can move on, that simple, if you wanna discuss my opinions of the story… ask your questions.
Ok that’s your opinion and I respect it. In my opinion it was GOOD WRITING. And see my upper case is the same as your upper case so my opinion is just as good as yours.
Personally I liked the story, mostly because I’m a huge Windrunner fan and it was a major Windrunner story. I found the characters interesting and the quests that made up the story were interesting. They said from day one that it was an alt expansion so I leveled a number of alts with one or more in each covenant.
Revendreth was probably one of the best zones in WoW. I loved the dredgers. “If you die can I have your teeth?” and my favorite, “Don’t … draw attention … just walk … away”. I also liked the French sword fighting style of the NPCs and the vampire like setting.
I have no issue with the zones in SL, I had no issue with the covenants, I do however LOATH the story and villain behind it. It was some of the worst retconning I’ve ever seen… you destroyed the best villain of the franchise in Arthas without even actually using Arthas, plus making the Lich King weakling and nothing more than a figure head. They tried to redeem Sylvanas in one of the cheapest ways possible, no closure on Nathanos or where he went. Outside of Sire Denathrius, I can’t really think of many positives… and now that they’ve tackled the afterlife, what is there really to do? Death has been conquered… we get left on a cliff-hanger and in the dark who why Zoval did all that he did.
I’ve been though this debate before. There was no retconning at all. The point most often made has to do with the Chronicals. Remember them? They were sold as the be all end all final word on WoW lore except whoops they are only the Titian’s view of WoW lore.
Apparently they said that the Dreadlords materialized in the Twisting Neather and provided Frostmourne and the Helm. However it is not clear anything ever said they forged the sword and helm.
So now we add some backstory saying where they came from. Turns out they were created by Sire Denathrius who sent them to materialize in the Twisting Neather and the Rune Carver forged the sword and helm. New material but nothing that was established was changed. So what’s the retcon?
As for Sylvanas, she played Tyrande for a fool. Her “punishment” was to be thrown into the Briar Patch. She had to dive back into the Maw where of course she has a condo in Torghast. She can sit and cool her heals plotting her return.
The Archon was a perfect metaphor for someone stuck in their ways and won’t let go of old ideas until they are facing death. That was a really good story.
I loved the part about how the great and powerful goddess Elune is nothing more than the Winter Queen’s bratty little sister. That was priceless.
As for Zovaal, he was very clear about what he wanted to do when he said “I’m coming for the soul of your world”. That fits right into the story we see today, everyone is after the Azeroth World Soul.
I liked Prince Renathal’s dry sence of humor. We saw nothing like that in Dragonflight. I liked getting my 20 souls every week and getting my anima. Everything about it, to me it was a great expansion.
It’s not a debate at all… I don’t know why you think it is.
If it’s not a retcon, then the writing is even worse than I originally thought. You pull a villain out of a hat, tell us he’s the master behind all of the events that have happened and they expect us to just accept it, just like that? Making all the lore we already knew… mean nothing and kinda just disappears… there is no build up to him, absolutely zero wonder or anticipation to see him for the first time… it was just, “oh, a monotone giant slow talking bald guy with powers and no interesting backstory.”
… yet. There is still the story of the “First Ones” and how it is all connected to the Titans and the Soul of Azeroth.
Zovaal was not the master behind all that happened. He was one of many beings going after Azeroth’s world soul. The void is after her, the Primalists are after her, the Titans are involved and of course we are involved.
Warcraft started out as a small story build around Orcs & Humans, Arthas, etc and has expanded just as Tolkien’s story started out as a small story about a Hobbit running into Smegal and his “precious” that story expanded into a bigger story about the One Ring to Rule them All. That story expanded into the Silmarillion which is an epic about the Elves and the Gods of Middle Earth.
It’s a common tactic in Fantasy Sci Fi, start out with a small story and watch as it expands by background being added supporting new and bigger adventures.
It doesn’t matter if it’s started out small with Orcs and Humans. I know. Stop trying to educate me on stuff that is irrelevant to the discussion, plus… I already know and starting off small isn’t an excuse for bad storytelling and/or stories.
Zovaal was clearly made to the mastermind behind all the events in WOLTK and others. He is nothing more than an inserted super villain, with no personality and nothing interesting to learn from him… but is made out to be a really important figure in all of it.
That’s your take and your welcome to it. I see him as just another force going after the Azeroth world soul. Having the Rune Carver forging Frostmourne and the Helm is not the cosmos shattering change you are making it out to be. In fact it’s not a change at all, just an addition.
And in the end Zovaal was not able to control Arthas when he was alive. Did they cut his ending short, yes they did. In fact they seem to have cut out an entire season. That has nothing to do with writing, it was a business decision to stop the negative advertising from YouTube CCs spewing trash talk to farm for clicks.
What is up with your obsession with pushing this? Our entire discussion… is about our opinions of the game’s story.
Not able to control Bolvar either…
A business decision because the expansion was incredibly unsuccessful and widely considered to be the worst expansion in this game’s 20 year history. A LOT of it has to do with the poor story and writing…
That alone I wouldn’t say is inherently a retcon per se. I don’t have an actual term on hand for it, but it’s basically the writers saying “this revelation was always coming even though it was clearly not in mind when the original material was written.” It still fits the narrative, but feels clunky because it wasn’t planned. I place great value in long term planning for this very reason.
Dragonball Super is a good example of pulling both of the above. The fusion earrings suddenly only lasting an hour is an outright retcon, while Beerus apparently ordering Frieza to destroy Vegeta isn’t a retcon but still a stupid thing they expect us to accept (that damages Frieza’s character).
Both are awful things pulled by hack writers, so I guess I’m being needlessly pedantic.
That’s natural. I despise Genn Greymane because he destroys everything he touches, gets a pass by blubbering about his son or people, and then out of nepotism, makes Tess Greymane Queen of a renewed Gilneas.
A Gilneas that is absurdly an ‘international/interfactional’ city, despite the Horde being the defacto reason why Gilneans are miserable in the first place.
This is peak Last of the Romanovs levels of stupid.
