Doubtful any of that group is reliably clearing more than one or two mythic bosses, so no.
Like I said, title shouldâve been, âHas raiding ruined raiding?â
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Crazy thought here but I donât think itâs going to do much.
I wasnât referring to mythic raiding.
But letâs see. When I first started doing M+ you got max level gear for doing 1 15 per week.
Wasnât it in Dragonflight they started increasing dmg/health % for keys above 13, effectively making a SL 20 as hard as a DF 18, and moving the bar for max level gear from 15 to 16, and now itâs at 18?
Difficulty is subjective. Youâre 2700 IO and 6/9 M. Most people arenât. Lol
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I think a better argument might be âthe comparative difficulty of mythic vs mythic+ has killed raidingâ. They both offer the same rewards but one is FAR harder than the other. Both in execution and in organisational requirements.
When that happens, far fewer people are going to raid (see rated PvP arenas). Which⌠is a problem as raids are one of the core pillars of endgame. Iâd argue that as long as mythics are so punishing and niche, its going to get worse, not better.
no, it hasnt
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What are the other core pillars? No one PVPs and you canât take Conquest gear into raid or M+, so it isnât PVP.
No one does Mythic raid, so it canât be that.
The core pillar of end game now is T mog, farming collectibles, cheevos and M+.
Raiding is slowly but surely phasing out and the personal loot thing was a nail entering the coffin.
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Itâs good to have multiple progression paths.
Blizzard just put their difficulty to reward ratios miles apart.
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I just find it weird that folks take such an offensive stance to M+.
WoW is an excellent game in terms of its PvE content but until Legion, the only real form of endgame PvE content was raiding. M+ means that you now have access to more meaningful PvE content to do beyond just the once or twice a week with a weekly reset.
One can definitely argue about M+ gearing but, by and large, it has honestly improved raiding in so many ways that I canât realistically see how it would have âruinedâ it. Changed it for sure and definitely created a different dynamic, but regardless of whether one calls it (fairly or unfairly) unbalanced in terms of gearing ⌠the overall gearing process is much better via the introduction of M+ for all forms of PvE content in my opinion.
And the reason is because M+ is really, REALLY bad to get gear overall. It is good to get higher pieces on a weekly basis thanks to the vault, but in terms of overall gearing pace and all of that� Raids are still miles better than spamming M+.
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It didnât ruin raiding for everyone, only for people that would want to raid log or didnât want to do stupid grinds outside of raids.
While some can argue that the goal was to make the game more accessible or to add different ways to gear the main reason is they didnât want people to be able to raid log anymore. Ion said himself that he had this war on raid logging and didnât like for people to be able to do it.
Thatâs why the whole loot model of M+ work this way.
And it didnât make raiding better, it only shrank the player base.
Itâs funny in a way as we got rid of borrowed power to respect player time, but M+ still work as it is because theyâre not willing to compromise on that. Theyâd rather have less players than let players raid log.
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No.
Raiding ruined raiding.
Not everybody has the time available to raid. The people who raid will keep raiding.
People who do M+ will keep doing that.
People who do pvp will keep doing pvp.
Not a lot of overlap.
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That was my initial point though.
A 20 AD/BRH is eaiser than most bosses on heroic, and entirely less time consuming to get a group together and complete said content.
Once you hit a 17, which may be as hard as an 11-12 was in previous seasons youâre getting free end heroic/entry mythic raiding ilvl gear, thatâs farmable on top of that.
I donât think they should go and nerf gearing through m+, i think raiding needs to be brought up to par in terms of rewards + provide a key level which rewards myth track items (maybe starting at 25).
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I never understood the m+ gear ruins anything mindset. Raid is way more efficient then m+ assuming you can do the content. Amirdrassil can be cleared in a hour with a group that one shots bosses and that drops over the course of it 2-6 items per boss depending on group size. Sure you have to roll for said items, but each week that passes can mean less people actually need those pieces and occasionally there are items that only a few classes can even roll on.
Meanwhile m+ can go as fast as 10-20 minutes for a low chance to get loot and even lower chance for it to be what you want.
Raid is the weekly where the loot source is far more efficient and can only be done once. M+ is the grind where its way less efficient but its there all week. As far as guilds go raid only players get geared with far less effort since a lot of raid drops become no contest rolls as other people gear up from m+.
If M+ was the best source of gear in this game the world first guilds wouldnât be doing a ton of splits.
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Splits and paying people to trade items. Also doesnt mean that theyre ignoring m+, they are also doing m+.
With the way crests work getting aspect crests from m+ is way way better than doing mythic raids for crests.
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Iâll have to plead ignorance here, did they change something with the balance of the tuning %'s?
I donât have a problem with this.
My issue with this is I could probably jump in a M run with a competent guild and perform fine in the first few bosses, but I donât think I could heal a 25.
Cross-realm play ruined raiding, not mythic+. The ability to pug everything and not have real teams for most content trashed the social aspect of this game.
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The disparity in gear a few weeks in between those who grind M+ and those who do not is painful.
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M+ vault gear -starts- at 483. Myth track is myth track, and those items can be upgraded to 489. The only advantage raiding has is duper rares like Augury getting bumped to 496 in mythic, I think.
Yeah but when gearing my 440-450 character I am far more inclined to just do one normal pug a week clear it in a hour or two and call it a day rather then maybe getting into 2-4 m+ at +5-12 and maybe getting 1 or 2 items if Iâm lucky.
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You get maybe 1 to 2 items per whole raid on average. If you want to get geared early its not comparable. Add to the problem that youre competing in pugs for a spot vs other people that are willing to do the grinds.
Gearing can be better with funneling but thats not a thing for most people.