But at the same time, the vault is guaranteed to give you something, unlike bonus rolls.
My memory is getting a lot more AP than items from bonus rolls back in BFA/Legion.
Maybe true, but how many times did you bonus roll on a specific boss and get nothing? Or something you donât need? At least with the vault itâs straight up 3 choices for 7 boss kills.
Iâd point out that for the average 23-25 man roster 7 boss kills isnât even a guarantee when youâre 7/9 mythic and it takes weeks to get to that point. Getting more than 1 vault slot week 1 is typically a challenge for 90% of mythic guilds and 2 slots week 2 is hit or miss and again, not everyone is getting them due to some people sitting bosses.
With coins you only needed to kill 3 mythic bosses, any 3, to coin 3 times.
Again not saying one was better than the other, just providing some much needed context.
What I want is the systems to get tuning with respect to each other so that gearing up for mythic prog without M+ spamming is a viable course of action.
Whether thatâs buffing raid drops, nerfing/lockout on M+ drops, or some combination of both doesnât really matter as much.
Sure but the vault often offers nothing of value except on the first weeks as the rng is too great, so once you donât need the ilvl the rng starts to be ridiculous. For specific stuff like trinkets itâs pretty bad generally.
Iâd say one of the things reducing the variance from the vault the most is the change to the catalyst. Iâd also say that one of the reasons so many drops from vault are âdeadâ is Mythic+. Back in the day you had 1, maybe 2 stat combos for each slot per armour type per raid, now you have every combo under the sun and itâs not unlikely that BIS stat combo at 483 beats out other stat combos at 489.
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Itâs absolutely no different to coins, you still had to get to the boss and pop a coin for an RNG chance. At least the vault is 100% guaranteed to give you something, whether you need it or not, coins never did.
Sure but Iâm arguing still that the chance of giving you something of value is still less than a bonus roll.
Youâd have to be able to choose specific boss loot tables for that to happen.
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Besides the whole needing to kill 7 mythic bosses compared to 3 thing.
And how is that different than trying to get to the later bosses you needed for the bonus roll?
Youâre the one who said itâs no different, unless what you actually meant is that there are pros and cons to both and because of those things a person could rightly state the case that either was their preferred method and state reasons to support that.
Looking at how retail has leaned more and more on m+. I probably should have dipped after bfa (when I last cared to play getting all the requirements for azerothâs champion besides 2400 in rated pvp). Should have just hopped over to classic to find a nice guild that would do a main run and like 2 alt runs per week.
Probably should finish leveling up in season of discovery so I donât miss my chance again.
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Wouldnât the people who complain about flightstones complain about having to do non-raid content to get the currency to buy their raid bonus rolls?
I kind of prefer the vault over bonus rolls as someone who has been raiding through implementations of both because the disappointment of having no good choices has a consolation socket prize from the vault, bonus coins would barely cover repairs if they didnât give you an item and had the same disappointment of getting an item you already had.
I tried to pug a Tindral HC kill
we had 2 tanks, 2 healers and 14 dps
i wanted to make 2/4/14 = 20 man raid
i waited almost 1 hour to find another 2 good healers
eventually everyone left because no one wants to wait 1h to kill 1 boss in the raid
and then i pugged my +18 Fall key, in less than 1 minute i filled it with good players and did it
Blizzard should make something so ppl will want to heal raids more, all healers are running from raid, at least the good ones, it takes soooooooo long to get good healers on raid
While in M+ you get good tanks and healers very easily even with the mana nerfs
The reason why people jump ship is because m+ exists. Remove that option and youâll have fewer people quit because there is no alternative except if the group just really sucks (aka like retail was until legion, and how classic has been).
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I think what âruinedâ the gear raid progression isnât just mythic+ but the ease of the upgrade system.
For example: a champion (normal piece) maxed - is equivilant to heroic gear.
A heroic gear maxed is equivalent to mythic.
I have a champion ring fully maxed that is effectively BIS because itâs prime stats + socket + leach.
Upgrading is super easy any kind of crazy how close everything is togeather.
Oh - fully upgraded lfr gear is equivilant to normal.
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I think raiding ruined raiding. Time commitment for it is huge.
The raid trash was fun when raiding was introduced. But now itâs just horrible.
Gearing through raid is extremely garbage and a waste of time. M+ is just way better
Raids have too many bosses. 7 would be a really good number.
Raid size requirement in mythic is a roster boss that cannot be nerfed
Why on earth did you wait so long? What was your criteria for âa good healerâ? 
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I spend most of my time in the overworld actually. Got my Warrior to 259 just by doing weekly quests that give Amirdrassil loot sometimes and outdoor activities.
So there is an option for people who donât really like running dungeons OR raids, too.
Is it the highest gear? No, but itâs enough for a lot of people and that is a choice that they can make.
Completely depends on drops and even the classes/specs. With Holy Priest it was often the case that my BiS trinkets were M+ loot and weapons arenât that different except when there are special effects on them that are great for certain classes. Itâs a pretty mixed bag.
The discussion also shouldnât shift from the general gearing process to specific BiS items that sometimes also take a very long time to get because of the weekly lockout.
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