Has anyone actually changed their mind about RDF?

I have. I didn’t want it at first, but I was convinced throughout Classic and TBCC that it’s absolutely necessary.


If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything you pick and choose the hills that you want to die on and this is a hill a lot of us are willing to die on.

At the end of the day its wizard’s decision what they want to do However what I’m hoping happens is once the Beta comes in people are going to see how bad it’s going to be and maybe that’ll be enough to push it in.

Hack I would be happy if they put it in at phase too at this point Because if they really want to justify and say well then the leveling scene is dead at that point OK fine.

But the reality is the more they get pushed back the more we talk about LFD as a whole the bigger the chances that it’s going to be in.

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I think the only way I would change my mind is if Blizzard gave us the Retail LFG tool, moved the LFG rewards to a quest giver NPC, and connected the low population servers. The gearscore addon would also need to be broken. Do all this and I might change my mind.


I have been advocating people should be looking for area’s where both parties can find compromises… but regrettably, for many that seems to fall on deaf ears.

With no middle ground established we can’t chart a way forward.

There is no middle ground, we’re asking for something that should be there because it WAS there.


That’s where I believe there can be. For instance, adding it in a later phase is a form of ‘middle ground’. One I am sure the other party doesn’t agree with at all, but there are places we can compromise for sure.

This for instance isn’t a bad start:

It was posted on a different thread, but roughly encompasses how I envision a compromise between the two groups working.

On the one hand, the early stages of the game will have very limited use of the LFD tool promoting social interaction WHILE heroic dungeons are being pursued by the majority of players as ‘current’ content. While after that content becomes largely irrelevant and only really exists for the daily badges + gearing alts, it too gets added to the LFD tool (earlier than when it would have been if we stuck to the original release I might add).

It’s not heroic to refuse to change your mind based on new information, it’s folly.

Just add it in ICC phase like it should be.


There-in being the point. Both parties are too stubborn to sacrifice a ‘little’ bit of what they want to appease both groups. So long as this is the mentality held by players we can’t establish a middle ground and come up with ideas that might actually be believe-it-or-not ‘good’ for the game.

We didn’t have to sacrifice for TBC or Vanilla, why should we have to sacrifice for wrath?


I guess it depends on which “pro-RDF” crew you’re speaking to. I know that for myself, I just want to make sure it’s going to be there during the ICC phase - as it was originally. Even if we change Blizzards mind, I don’t think we’ll do so in time for it to be there in Phase 1.

However, the options you linked from a different thread are reasonable to me as well.
Regardless, I just want the game to resemble og wrath as best as it can. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request.

Maybe but when you were there the 1st time and see how the game is and see where it’s going to lead and and know that this feature could make a lot of other people’s lives not just you better overall than that’s something to stand for.

Especially since the good points far outweigh the bad points and the arguments Against it are very silly Making a 100 people happy when it makes over a 1000 people miserable is not a good Justification for something not to come in I would say the same thing with dual spec in tbc.

Because clearly there wasn’t anything as divisive as this among the player-base. A significant portion of players who helped support the classic project from its conception were holding on to the hope that blizzard would carry on what they deemed ‘classic’ qualities into the future expansions while others wanted authentic point-for-point recreations.

The point should be to replay the version that made the game, not make changes that the devs “think” people want.

No one is going to leave if LFD is in during ICC.

They’re turning the game into a version that’s worse than a buggy pserver.


I was there and saw how it was the first time, when LFD wasn’t as needed as it already is now. People blaming LFD for the state of retail are simply wrong - it’s been deteriorating for over a decade because of Blizzard’s decisions. It took years to be considered bad.

I’m not sure why you’re responding to me in this manner, since your initial reply is the logic of anti-LFD posters who will never change their mind.


What? The vast majority of players supporting Classic prior to it even launching wanted no changes. That includes later expansions.

The people who wanted to gatekeep and make their game wanted it from the start, too. And they weren’t catered to until much later.


I would argue that not many more would leave even if LFD isn’t included in the game. Wotlk’s staying power isn’t in the LFD system. It’s in it’s raids/story/PvP content.

So given Blizzards ‘decision’ regarding LFD, we would need a more substantial argument to overturn their decision. “No changes” was originally the guideline, and while I don’t believe “No changes” was wrong, I do see how degenerate player behavior has taken advantage of the situation and deteriorated the experience. Regardless, Blizzard believe this to be a ‘Healthy’ change for classic WotLK. It falls on us to convince them otherwise, or offer an alternate solution that achieves our goals while supporting their ideals.

As much as I believe this, it’s one of things we don’t have any metrics on. Majority is a completely speculative term without data and therefore a useless phrase on these forums.

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I mean, via poll data the majority is definitely not in favor of removing LFD.


I wasn’t going to play Wrath either way, I don’t have a horse in this race.

But it makes me chuckle that almost all the people that wanted to turn classic/TBC into wrath (and there were a LOT of people suggesting wrath changes to these expansions) now are seeing the problem with a some-changes Wrath… Couldn’t have happened to nicer people!

That being said, they should just add the full feature in the ICC phase.

If I think something’s wrong and something is going to make the game worse I’m going to say something about it And I’ll repost and keep arguing it as much as I possibly can.

It’s the point I was trying to make I’m not going to stay silent on something that I think could make the game better and especially when yeah I was there too I’ve been playing the game since 2004.

And the truth is we don’t play the game the same way and yeah you are right people may never change their minds that’s probably true however that doesn’t mean that I’m going to stay quiet.

Because even if those people don’t if there’s enough of an outcry make I’m an outcry maybe just maybe blizzard will do something you can call that hoping or false hope sure but I would rather talk than stay silent because they don’t say anything than nothing will change.

If or a better way to say it is this I would rather complain about something that’s bad because at least I know I did something than be upset about something that’s bad and do nothing about it