So many bogus claims going around on these forums from people who didn’t even play the bugged version, were not mechanically good enough to make it work, or have some ulterior pve related agenda to stop templar becoming stronger.
“It felt sluggish” - Then you weren’t playing it correctly. Wake > HoL > divine toll > HoL > judgment > blade > HoL > (and if you get a DP proc in there, add 1 more HoL). 7 or 8 globals = 3 or 4 HoL’s. It was very straightforward to do the same rotation every time.
“It felt spammy and was ignoring our other rotation” - Was it sluggish or was its spammy??? Which one was it??? 5 holy power spender is WAY less spam than 3 holy power FV spam which means it actually opened up your rotation more to other abilities than FV did. I wish people would stop spreading this lie.
“The damage of bugged HoL was way too high, Hero Specs are only supposed to be 15-20% of your damage” - I can’t speak on pve because I don’t pve, but in pvp the bugged HoL was still LESS DAMAGE than Herald in terms of damage per globals/holy power spent on your Hero Ability. The output of 2-3 dawlights per wake of ashes (wish costs no extra HP or globals) still outpaced the output of 3-4 HoL’s per wake of ashes (wish costs more holy power and more globals). Keep in mind this is in PvP scenarios only. I would know because I guarantee I did more skirmies in the last 2 weeks then anyone on these forums. I did hundreds as both Herald and Templar, I’m playing at 2.4k skill level, and I always got out-dpsed by mediocre rets if I was playing bugged HoL and they were playing herald. Herald is just WAY easier and WAY better. Most PvP rets still chose to play Herald over bugged Templar because it was still better.
“The animations/ sound felt bad” - Speak for your self, most of us think this skill felt amazing, getting off 5 HoL’s per minute felt strong and rewarding, like our holy power spender actually did something for once. Rather than spam 30 Wet Noodle Verdicts per minute, throwing 5 HoL’s per minute into the mix changed up our rotation and actually gave us an engaging/ dynamic mechanic to work around that felt FUN and rewarding as hell.
Anyway clearly we’re not going to win this battle and I’ll have to play Herald the entire xpac. I didn’t like Templar before the bug and I don’t like it now - it feels boring and weak. The bugged version was fun while it lasted.
It was fun/interesting, I agree. But as much as I may have prayed to The Holy Light for it to be intended, I knew it was going to turn out and be a bug. It is what it is.
Play what makes you happy, my brother in the Light. If that’s Herald, go for it.
now yoru just going straight into tinfoil hat theory. the spec hasnt been designed around pvp for years, theyre not gonna start now by making a bug that breaks the spec into a feature
No spec has ever being designed around pvp. That’s why pvp exclusive modifiers exist. Everyone on these forums are tired of you making up easily disprovable claims. Talking to you is exhausting.
yes thats what i said?? no spec is designed for pvp, why would they make a bug that breaks the hero tree and some of the spec tree into a feature just cause “its good in pvp”
yall like to use that term, mean while no one likes to talk about how it makes 3/4ths of the hero tree pointless for all content
Why do you keep saying this made up 3/4 number? It makes only 2 nodes in the tree not work as intneded, and they are 2 small passives that could easily be adjusted
Yes you’re right this was a bug and not a feature. But most people think this version was way more fun and that’s why we are arguing for it to be made into a feature or at least for some kind of templar rework because templar now is weak and boring. None of us care for your precious minigame m+ details meters, we only care about the spec being FUN.
most people just want to do max damage with 0 effort, this bug made that happen at the cost of the core mechanics of the spec. of course people are gonna “like it” cause it made them feel like goodplayers when they werent
Otherwise in AoE I agree that it wasn’t to bad because DT was a refill but that’s every minute.
On the second cast of Wake it’s not nearly as easy and it’s even worse in ST.
That’s a delusion.
The only thing making HoL being spammable would do is cut its damage in 3 on the ability itself.
Dev’s aren’t dumb, the intent of player behind asking this is transparent.
Work within the confine of their intent.
If templar isn’t strong enough compared to Herald, ask for it tuned higher or for Herald to be nerfed if it’s out of line in the threshold they initially game of 20-25% of our damage.
Yes second cast I could only get 2 or 3 HoL’s off which was still fine. That’s why I say it was about 5 or 6 HoL’s per minute
This is true because if herald/ templar currently sim about the same then they would need to reduce the damage of HoL in pve… but if pally is supposedly underperforming in all content then why not just buff herald instead of nerfing templar lol
Now THIS is delusion. There is no hidden intent, it was just fun and it’s as simple as that. I main destro and I was arguing for them to nerf Wither back into a casted ability rather than an instant cast. I don’t just argue for flat buffs and I’m not trying to make my toon as OP as possible, I only care about how fun it is to play and how the rotation feels
Sorry I worded this wrong, I should have said that only 2 talents became “broken”
-Shake the heavens still worked perfectly fine, just more upkeep (it’s underpowered and keeps hitting pets in pvp anyway)
-Sacroscant crusade was not broken at all but the healing numbers just need to be adjusted to accommodate for more HoL’s. This is not “broken” just overtuned (but considering the crazy self heals of Herald, I didn’t think it was that crazy)
-Undisputed ruling wasn’t broken, you can extend the haste buff a few times instead of just 6 seconds, it still made sense
And yeah obviously if HoL was reworked to 12 seconds of use then these numbers would be adjusted but I thought that was so obvious that it went without saying.
Hammerfall and Higher Calling don’t make sense with bugged HoL, these 2 I believe became “broken”
Imo Light’s Deliverance should be a single (free) use of HoL, not 12 seconds, even if Wake of Ashes is 12 seconds of use. That way you will never get locked out of using Wake of Ashes (and radiant glory) plus it’s much easier to balance that way
It(HoL) is actually not good in pvp because you cant use it while stunned, feared, MCed, ect ect, or snared or slowed most of the game. Everyone kites and CCs Ret well when wings is active even though it (AW and Crusade) is nerfed by 50% in pvp. FV being damage buffed to make Ret be middle of the pack in Raid would help it more in pvp because unlike HoL, FV actually has some range. But FV does terrible damage right now so some Ret enjoyers were hoping to keep using HoL rotationaly often.
This is exactly what I have said 100 times and keep trying to explain to these PvE andy’s… Just because they sim the same for pve means nothing for pvp
Herald is so easy to apply and it’s guaranteed damage
HoL is much more tricky to pull off in pvp scenarios, realistically after most of my Wake of Ashes I could only get off 2 HoL’s. It has short range and it’s not hard to kite/ cc a ret during HoL windows
Shake the heavens is constantly hitting pets and minions instead of players
And like I said, in PvP your enemies are not going to stack up nice and neatly for you to cleave your HoL, it is usually only hitting 1 target. It will never be close to the dps of the Sims in PvP scenarios
Dawnlight is constantly being applied to 2 or 3 targets every 30 seconds. Herald mechanically makes way more sense for pvp
I hear you but you and Benmarch keep missing the point that this was rotationally a lot more fun. This is not about Templar not being strong enough. This is about Templar not being fun enough.
I am just arguing that the bugged HoL was not OP in response to “If they make it a feature they will have to half it’s damage” because that only applies to PvE. But once again, why not just buff herald in that case if Ret is weak anyway…
i hope no one takes your balancing ideas seriously, cause this entire post is just wrong
why would everything have to be nerfed from burst to “consistency” to fit this bug. thats not fun, that is not fair, and makes ret worse for every gamemode cept pvp
its not even FUN, theres nothing fun to spending 5 hopo and ignore your other spenders and kit, theres nothing fun to having an entire bricked hero tree.
no one cares bro, focus on fun for once instead of your precious minigame m+ details charts, there’s more to this game than that. PvP rets still picked Herald over bugged HoL and that’s all I need to say about balance.
