Had a really ugly thought about Sylvanas's characterization now

I really hope I’m reading too much into it, because I feel put off just writing about this.

But, among everything else, Sylvanas’s most important character moment was the trauma inflicted on her by Arthas and how it shaped her perception of the world thereafter. Her story has been compared more than once to that of a rape analogy, specifically because of the way her spiritual torture is described.

Now, there’s been concerns that some later material seems to have partially detracted from Arthas’s role in this, such as his soul being immediately stolen when he took up Frostmourne, the whispers in his head, etc. If it’s true that the newest retcon for Shadowlands is that the Jailer is actually the being responsible for these whispers…

Well, am I imagining it, or has Blizzard inadvertently written a story where Sylvanas has chosen to become a co-conspirator with the person actually responsible for abusing her in the first place?


All part of her (Sylvanas’) plan.



You’re talking about people who did a drug addiction allegory in TBC and resolved it by giving them more drugs.


To be fair in a controlled environment this can work (well not “more”). Not going in to details.

Well, one could say she did that the moment she decided to work with Varimathras. As a Dreadlord, he likely had more information than most of the other members of the Legion about the source of the Scourge’s knowledge. She knew he was involved with the Legion, the Scourge, and all that jazz that led to hear initial death. He was not directly involved, but neither was the Jailor.

Sylvanas tried to end her existence but was faced with a nightmare of an option. I could see her wanting to make new options for herself. Which is something I often considered, and I am glad Blizzard is addressing it. One way, or another.

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I mean I was thinking the plot twist would be that when she killed herself at Icecrown she was going to be sent back to her paradise/reward place… only for the Jailer to yank her down to the Maw. A lesser version of what he’s doing to all souls now but enough to get her there, convince her she was damned to hell when she really wasn’t etc, etc…

Basically she’d have gotten Punk’d.


She’s doing all of this to defeat the Jailer and the Arbiter.
She replaces the Arbiter.
Bolvar replaces the Jailer.
Blizzard smacks us over the head with “Sylvanas was right all along.”


I’d be pretty upset if she is somehow vindicated. I think it would be more fitting if Arthas’s spirit returns and kills her again ALA illidan showing up against Gul’dan in Nighthold.

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She’s Kerrigan. of course she’s going to be vindicated.


Arthas’s spirit should return and become the new jailer and also re-kill or enslave her.

Thank God you’re not a writer or you’d write the yikeiest thing in yikesville.


Well we made it 8 posts before the crayon eaters showed up. Gotta be some kinda record.


I’d be even more upset if Arthas is vindicated at her expense.


I can see blizzard easily side stepping this by announcing, by tweet, that rape doesn’t happen in WoW.

So any sort of analogy you can draw from Sylvanas experience would be inappropriate.

Just to clarify, I am joking and think this is terrible idea.

But my opinion of them is so low I fully expect this to happen.


Wait, sorry, is there any indication of this in beta? That they’re replacing Ner’zhul’s voice he heard with the Jailer’s? Or are you just speculating?

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IIRC its less “replacement” and more “also the Jailer was there”

Getting real damn crowded in this helmet.


I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at the potentiality of them undermining Ner’zhul’s role in corrupting Arthas given how he was completely ignored in WotLK.


I really do hope that they put Arthas into the story somewhere in shadowlands. He’s too important to many of the people going into shadowlands for him not to be in the story at all.

I mean you have Jaina, Bolvar, Anduin, Darion Mograine, Sylvanas and Uther. All who have a unique relationship with him.

There are so many things they could do with his story that ties into the shadowlands narrative.

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I don’t think you have to make a rape analogy for it to be really bad. I’d still say it’s an slightly inappropriate comparison, though, because what happened to Sylvanas was actually way more invasive than any physical domination. But I think any attempt on Blizzards part to say “oh, he didn’t physically rape her, he just dominated her psychically and forced her to do things she didn’t want to do” would come off as really stupid.

I don’t think there’s anything inadvertent about it, but it’s not that big of a deal either. Sylvanas and the Jailor have a common goal, but like they said, that doesn’t mean is the jailor’s minion, or that have all the same goals.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Sylvanas was Kerrigan 2.0 but worst.