Don't listen to any naysayers! It's a very smart move being prepared regardless when release is. I'd 100% apply seeing this is exactly what myself and a couple friends are looking for but alliance paladin ftw!
Thanks for the support Babyrabbits Haha. Don't worry a few disagreements isn't going to deter us. I'm glad people are asking questions so we can get more info out there.
Your definition of corruption is off majorly. If someone wants to leave after getting a single piece of gear so what? And like that couldn't happen with LC? If they scored the piece with DKP it means they earned it fair and square and don't owe anyone anything. That's the beauty of the system: you get what you earn end of story.
I don't think DKP is a bad system inherently it just isn't right for the organization we are building. I agree for a player who may leave after they get what they want dkp is inherently a better system, but that's not what we're about. Look at our values. We want committed respectful players who want to win. Our decisions will be made in fairness. I invite anyone who is interested to get to know zizek and myself and see who we are as people and players. We will build a fair community that progresses. Favoritism will not be tolerated.
DKP is open to more corruption than a good LC. People who seem to think otherwise have clearly never raided in a serious guild before.
DKP favors the individual, LC favors the guild. If your in a LC guild, your pulling your weight, and your not getting loot, then your not in a serious guild.
Too many items go to random people in a DKP guild that just vanish or ride the bottom long enough to buy one big item and leave.
Your definition of corruption is off majorly. If someone wants to leave after getting a single piece of gear so what? And like that couldn't happen with LC? If they scored the piece with DKP it means they earned it fair and square and don't owe anyone anything. That's the beauty of the system: you get what you earn end of story.
Like i said, it doesn't happen with a serious guild.
As for earning it? Showing up to a raid does not mean you deserve loot. if 2 people show up to a raid, who deserves an item more? The guy who doesn't consume, doesn't try very hard, rides the bottom of the damage/healing/threat done but just happens to have most dkp saved up because he hasn't been spending it on any other upgrades to improve his character, or the guy who shows up to raid prepared, fully consumed, goes as hard as he can, takes on additional responsibility, has been actively upgrading his gear because he knows his stuff and thus has less dkp.
The choice is very clear as to why DKP doesnt work for any guild that approaches endgame with any seriousness. But by all means, go join a dkp guild and have your gear taken by players who just dont show up again for raids after they get what they want.
About 80% of he people you recruit now won't make it to your guild in game. About 10-15% will never make it to 60.
That 5-10% that do make it to 60 is your sweet spot. Assuming that they all stay (which is not a given) you have to decide if this is worth the time and investment if you are not playing on a p server.
Guilds with an established core on a p server have huge advantages that you don't. They are likely already clearing content, can offer spots immediately to levellers and already have an established core.
That said I wish you the best. It is not easy getting a guild started and no matter what happens you should always , ALWAYS be recruiting.
Well no !@#$ you would say that. No one says they're going to play favorites, and often they don't even intend to do so, but eventually you will as is the case with every LC that has ever been. Literally best-case scenario is you manage to be completely emotionless, efficient robots about loot and you achieve the bare minimum of what a DKP system achieves.
Your definition of corruption is off majorly. If someone wants to leave after getting a single piece of gear so what? And like that couldn't happen with LC? If they scored the piece with DKP it means they earned it fair and square and don't owe anyone anything. That's the beauty of the system: you get what you earn end of story.
Like i said, it doesn't happen with a serious guild.
As for earning it? Showing up to a raid does not mean you deserve loot. if 2 people show up to a raid, who deserves an item more? The guy who doesn't consume, doesn't try very hard, rides the bottom of the damage/healing/threat done but just happens to have most dkp saved up because he hasn't been spending it on any other upgrades to improve his character, or the guy who shows up to raid prepared, fully consumed, goes as hard as he can, takes on additional responsibility, has been actively upgrading his gear because he knows his stuff and thus has less dkp.
The choice is very clear as to why DKP doesnt work for any guild that approaches endgame with any seriousness. But by all means, go join a dkp guild and have your gear taken by players who just dont show up again for raids after they get what they want.
To be fair performance is on the officers and GM. It is up to them to make sure people who are showing up are consumed or performing. It is also up to them to recruit to replace them.
semi-hardcore :'D so casual, you are a casual guild who thinks they are going to try but won't.
No... it's implying they're a focused guild but don't care about being 1st at everything. Just want their players to be ready come raid time and understand their class and the given raid content.
As for earning it? Showing up to a raid does not mean you deserve loot. if 2 people show up to a raid, who deserves an item more? The guy who doesn't consume, doesn't try very hard, rides the bottom of the damage/healing/threat done but just happens to have most dkp saved up because he hasn't been spending it on any other upgrades to improve his character, or the guy who shows up to raid prepared, fully consumed, goes as hard as he can, takes on additional responsibility, has been actively upgrading his gear because he knows his stuff and thus has less dkp.
If someone is putting in their hours to earn their DKP they earned that bloody DKP. If they're truly a detriment to the raid the solution is to not bring them. What kind of !@#$%^- are you that you think it's ok to bring someone to a raid week in and week out and act like they don't deserve loot? Someone is always going to be on the bottom of the meters.
And who deserves the item more in your scenario? That guy with the bloody DKP holy *!@#. You think the guy that's already gotten five upgrades deserves his sixth more than the other guy deserves his first?
But by all means, go join a dkp guild and have your gear taken by players who just dont show up again for raids after they get what they want.
For starters, if they want to leave the guild or stop attending raids after getting a single piece of loot then chip chip to them. If they put in the time they earned the loot and it's theirs to do with what they will. Secondly, there's literally nothing stopping the same exact scenario occurring under a LC system. Why you keep acting like LC makes it so people can't stop showing up to raids is beyond me.
The way we distribute loot won't stop anyone from doing anything but building a culture with our values will keep everyone motivated and on the same page. LC is better for progression and hopefully will attract players who are motivated by progression and not loot.
When we say semi-hardcore we mean that we aren't 16 anymore. We have real jobs and can't expect everyone in the guild to put in 30 hours a week. That being said we have experience and know what were doing, so we will be able to progress efficiently.
Even if a loot council is entirely unbiased, every time an item goes to an officer, a friend of an officer, or a family member of an officer there is the semblance of impropriety.
Even if there was no semblance of impropriety, it's insulting at best, and condescending at worst to assume that a loot council knows what gear choices are best for people.
semi-hardcore :'D so casual, you are a casual guild who thinks they are going to try but won't.
No... it's implying they're a focused guild but don't care about being 1st at everything. Just want their players to be ready come raid time and understand their class and the given raid content.
well put babyrabbits. You should really consider rolling horde ;)
The way we distribute loot won't stop anyone from doing anything but building a culture with our values will keep everyone motivated and on the same page. LC is better for progression and hopefully will attract players who are motivated by progression and not loot.
You remember when you got your first job and they're all, so why do you want to work here? And you have to avoid saying money? Or they'd give you a questionnaire where you have to choose between two options over and over and one of them is between "I prefer a job where I keep busy" and "I prefer a job where I make a lot of money" and even though it's 100% the latter you know you have to answer the former? That's what you sound like right now.
People like progression. People love loot. And half the fondness for progression is intrinsically tied to the fact that it means more loot. At best you're setting up a filter to find the best liars for your guild, and why? There's nothing wrong with being motivated by advancing your character.
The way we distribute loot won't stop anyone from doing anything but building a culture with our values will keep everyone motivated and on the same page. LC is better for progression and hopefully will attract players who are motivated by progression and not loot.
You remember when you got your first job and they're all, so why do you want to work here? And you have to avoid saying money? Or they'd give you a questionnaire where you have to choose between two options over and over and one of them is between "I prefer a job where I keep busy" and "I prefer a job where I make a lot of money" and even though it's 100% the latter you know you have to answer the former? That's what you sound like right now.
People like progression. People love loot. And half the fondness for progression is intrinsically tied to the fact that it means more loot. At best you're setting up a filter to find the best liars for your guild, and why? There's nothing wrong with being motivated by advancing your character.
You make some good points but LC is better for the guild. The guild progresses faster everyone gets loot faster. So if that's your motivation you can still get what you want. This isn't our "first job" I don't play the game for loot I play to be a part of a strong team that accomplishes goals. That's what we're looking for.
You remember when you got your first job and they're all, so why do you want to work here? And you have to avoid saying money? Or they'd give you a questionnaire where you have to choose between two options over and over and one of them is between "I prefer a job where I keep busy" and "I prefer a job where I make a lot of money" and even though it's 100% the latter you know you have to answer the former? That's what you sound like right now.
People like progression. People love loot. And half the fondness for progression is intrinsically tied to the fact that it means more loot. At best you're setting up a filter to find the best liars for your guild, and why? There's nothing wrong with being motivated by advancing your character.
You make some good points but LC is better for the guild. The guild progresses faster everyone gets loot faster. So if that's your motivation you can still get what you want. This isn't our "first job" I don't play the game for loot I play to be a part of a strong team that accomplishes goals. That's what we're looking for.
To be fair, a guild can progress just as fast if not faster using DKP. Same can be said vice versa.
Fact is - looting style won't govern progression pace. The players in the guild and leadership will govern progression pace.
You make some good points but LC is better for the guild. The guild progresses faster everyone gets loot faster. So if that's your motivation you can still get what you want. This isn't our "first job" I don't play the game for loot I play to be a part of a strong team that accomplishes goals. That's what we're looking for.
To be fair, a guild can progress just as fast if not faster using DKP. Same can be said vice versa.
Fact is - looting style won't govern progression pace. The players in the guild and leadership will govern progression pace.
Absolutely correct, Ashief.
I think the discussion of LC vs DKP vs Suicide Kings is best left to another post at this point because we've derailed from the intent of this post. At this point, we will be continuing the use of a loot council. If that changes at all based on feedback from members of the guild, we'll update this post.
If anyone has any other specific questions about the guild, feel free to add us on Discord or post here!
Just a few objective comments. -You don't need class officers anymore, Set it by role (ranged,meelee,heals,tank) or you're going to risj having a huge officer cadre which is going to make bias easily apparent. -Setting a loot council at the get go is wise for the long term proved you can eliminate bias and favoritism from the get go. -That's alot of raid time for adults with lives, while it might work for your initial group finding 40 people like that might be abit unrealistic unless you really can compete with top guilds.
Just a few objective comments. -You don't need class officers anymore, Set it by role (ranged,meelee,heals,tank) or you're going to risj having a huge officer cadre which is going to make bias easily apparent. -Setting a loot council at the get go is wise for the long term proved you can eliminate bias and favoritism from the get go. -That's alot of raid time for adults with lives, while it might work for your initial group finding 40 people like that might be abit unrealistic unless you really can compete with top guilds.
Aside from that best of luck with recruitment.
Appreciate the input, officer structure is something we are still playing with.
Best part of loot council is when they say the MT and MH need to be geared up 1st or the guild can't progress. Of course both the preselected MT and MH are officers and friends with the loot council if they aren't actually on it. Then noone else can get the MT slot even if they are better because the MT has much better gear just because he knows the people on the loot council.