Nope…didn’t say that at all.
It appears that you and I will never agree, that is okay, you be you, and i’ll be me. I only ask that you stick to the truth of my posts and what I actually said.
Edit, as of your last post.
Yes, it is best to stay true to what you originally posted, even when it is an unpopular opinion.
Okay well that’s honestly how I read it.
So explain this to me.
Someone comes to me, and tells me someone that just joined my guild is bad news. They provide me with 2 screenshots, both showing said person using slurs, and harassing people.
What do you think I should do?
As a GM, if there is something someone wants to tell me about one of my members, I want to hear it. Regardless of what my final judgment is likely to be, I want to hear it. If someone has some smears on their name I’m going to be more irritable if I have them around me for a prolonged period and then find out they’ve got a history of something.
Likely, unless it’s something critical, or a lengthy history with a lot of corroborating evidence, I will ask the guildie in question their side. I will discuss it with my second. And if we agree that something is amiss, then that person will, indeed, be getting the boot.
As someone who’s watched a smart predator given room to screw up not use it because they were smart enough to not do it where the people giving him room to screw up would directly witness it themselves, some people absolutely do not deserve a chance. Not even one.
Anyhow, if GMs should run their guild how they please, why’re you out here trying to get people to agree that they should let potential problems sit and roost?
That depends…can you verify that is the person? If not, I would take a wait and see approach. I do not tolerate bad behavior, I just allow room to grow away from it, if it is possible.
I would also ask for more context, what was said that made that person so hateful? I’m not condoning toxicity at all, but I would want to know the surrounding context.
I would bluntly ask the accused person to explain themselves, then I’d observe said person. There is a really good chance I would give them a chance to prove themselves capable or not. If they are that bad, they will show it soon enough and would be dealt with.
Are guild leaders/officers allowed to write rules which are there for everyone to follow? I imagine anyone not following the basic rules set-forth would get anyone kicked. Or is it just a, kick you out as we please?
I co-led a guild for about 4 years, from late MoP to mid Legion. I always advocated giving people a chance. More often than not, we got burned.
I don’t know that I’m entirely supporting NOT giving people chances - I mean I am a firm believer that people DO change. But I definitely understand wariness, and I do not condemn anyone for deciding to kick a toxic individual. It’s about more than your guild’s reputation - sometime’s it’s about the wellbeing of people in your guild.
I had a member in my guild, a human male Paladin, who had actually been insulting and hurling slurs at one of our gay members pretty consistently. The gay member didn’t want to speak up about it for some time, not wanting to cause a scene. But eventually she provided screenshots of whispers and the like. This man had been known for homophobic comments IC and OOC in the past, but publicly had said he’d turned away from that, and seemed to have actually done so. It ended up being a situation we all regretted. So yeah, would I give someone like that a second chance again? Hell no. And I’d warn others too, without a shred of guilt. It was utterly duplicitous and thoroughly wrong, and I’d want to protect others from that. If that makes me immature, then I’m glad to be immature, if the other option is being a butt.
Yes, thank you. So why are you the OP trying to spin this as a one-size-fits-all solution? That if we don’t give “them”, people who are theoretical and have done unknown things of unknown severity, our time and attention, we’re somehow lesser in terms of compassion?
This is also sort of… questionable. Why are you telling people how to handle a situation that they’ve been in before, but you haven’t. You’re speaking with zero firsthand experience, handing down life lessons and conjectures about their morality based on how they handled it, and you’ve never dealt with it?
You’re free to speak your mind, but it doesn’t seem like your place, in my opinion, to be instructing us on this.
I believe in kindness and yes, forgiveness, where appropriate. Also, I don’'t believe everything I read/hear just because someone said it.
I gather that, that is not a popular thought process but I stand firmly behind it. Here we are in game, war is warranted here, but who we are sometimes spills over into the real world…where real consequences exist. This thought process of guilty’ guilty, guilty, without proof, is what is wrong with society today. All one has to do is accuse someone and the accused become a pariah, or worse…burned at the stake.
Some of you act as though others would never lie, it is a nice thought to imagine everyone has integrity… I wish they did, but we are all smart enough to know they do not.
Why do you keep putting words in people’s mouths, or twisting them to fit your narrative? Anytime someone argues against you in this thread you make reaching interpretations on everything that they post.
Well when you put it that way, enabling harassment and bullying sounds so nice.
I’m not, but the things you’re pushing for have consequences I’m bringing up, that you’re either ignoring, or simply not understanding.
You’re both far more concerned with maintaining your death grip on your high horse stances. Which itself, is based in fallacy, and not actually moral or upstanding at all.
I mean you literally made a callout thread, now you’re trying to put yourself on a pedestal to judge everyone else. It’s ludicrous.
Isn’t Merdyth also Eviral, from the big tavern RP fuss on the forums, if anyone remembers that?
Oh for god sake.
Well that speaks a lot to motive.
Can we elect a member of the cabal whose job it is to know all the Wyrmrest forum lore?
Inb4 OJ Simpson makes a thread about how accused wife-murderers should be given a fair shake.
that way lies madness
I never left.
Point taken.
Please though, observe the original post that asked others, like me, for their opinions. Had it been reserved for guild leaders only, I can say that I never would have replied, but it wasn’t, so I thought my opinion was warranted and welcomed.
Life is too short, in game it’s even shorter. Play to your hearts content however you wish and I will play to mine.
We gave them. Then they said “No.” And proceeded to tell us how we’re all coldhearted people, and then we realized that this entire thread was written by someone who themselves have harassed and caused large amounts of issues. Basically rendering the entire OP insincere and meaningless, due to the obvious ulterior motive.
The annoyance that lecturing people causes isn’t offset when you end it with “but you can do whatever you want”. Just so you know. If that’s actually something you believe, then you didn’t need to openly judge others in the first place.
I’m sorry, are you saying that I should stay on here and argue with you? When it is apparently futile? You want me to deviate away from what I said, so you can say, “see, told ya so?”
No, I actually want you to go have fun, because this is a game and at the end of the day it should be what each and every single one of us wants.
Your above post saying that I am all for allowing murderers in a guild is absurd. I said listen to both sides, judge for yourself. But hey, you are the type of person that wants others to tell you what to do. Not able to see someone for who they are on your own, not a good enough judge of character, you need someone else to spell it out for you.
That’s on you.
… Okay when was this? Are you talking about the OJ joke? That wasn’t about you. It was about the OP pushing for people with bad histories to be included, and they have a bad history. Sorry you didn’t get the joke.
How will I live with myself.
Also you’re from Hakkar, why are you even here? The only two people arguing that not listening to accusers helps the community are
I thought the forums were for all who play the game.
On this, am I wrong?