I’d have to say this is a slippery slope. Every guildie with a guild name above their heads is a representative of that guild. And every interaction they have with others will influence how others will feel about the entire guild in general. If you have one jerk who is running around harassing, then your guild will end up getting painted with the same brush.
It is entirely up to the guild leader and officers to decide if a player is someone they want to be wearing their guild tag. By making that decision, they are also protecting their current guildies as well as themselves. If they feel they don’t trust a new guildie to act in a way that is in line with their reputation - or even if they just aren’t a good fit - they have the right and the responsibility to remove that guildie. If other guildies decide that the leaders have made a mistake, they can bring it to the leaders to discuss or are always free to look for another guild.
No, it’s not. That would mean it’s their RESPONSIBILITY to allow anyone in who wants in. That’s simply false, and again- you do not get to tell people how to run their guilds.
There are some people I’m not interested in being friends with. For someone who is telling people to mind their own business, you seem very vested in instructing and pressuring others into doing things your way.
I’m not telling anyone to mind their own business. You don’t even have to ignore warnings. I’m just asking if it’s really that terrible of a thing to give someone a chance. Is it?
How the hell would I answer that? What did they do? Is there proof? Have they done it more than once?
You want people to basically disregard all negative actions and make blanket statements essentially conceding that actions have no social repercussions and nobody should be held accountable for anything. And considering you started all this with a demeaning callout post, I’m not inclined to believe the “forgiveness and kindness above all else” shtick you started doing halfway through this thread.
Also, this is exactly what you said, actually. You started the thread calling people who warn gleaders about past behaviors “immature” and equated then to high schoolers. You just really switched gears and did a 180 partway through the thread and went from low key flaming people who don’t keep their head down and keep quiet, to preaching forgiveness and kindness.
I wanted to add a couple of points that I saw weren’t given much thought on here.
Mistakes are character building. A warning about someone might have some truth to it, but that’s not necessarily a reason to kick a person. Those mistakes made, might possibly have made them better, more reliable, more trustworthy, than the rigid person who swears up and down they are too great to ever make a mistake. This is not to say that the other side shouldn’t be heard…so listen, observe, and in time see for yourself.
Also, when someone goes out of their to follow another, just to tattle on them to their new guild leader about their misdeeds, not only does that seem petty, but it seem to me that it is telling the guild leader, “I think you won’t be smart enough to figure this out on your own.” A good leader observes those under them and will spot the bad apples and will act accordingly; whether or not someone has given them a “heads up” or not.
A good leader will also stand by their own until given a reason by that person not to. Racism, guild-stealing, sexism, general craziness, will show up if it is a real problem.
As a guild leader, no. It saves me time, and probably some grief, to know someone is trouble before they have a chance to make that trouble my problem.
Not inherently. Many people make the same mistakes every day, and never improve in any way.
You’re considering all toxic behavior a “mistake”, which I think is… well, a mistake. Most people who go out of their way to make the community worse are not making a mistake. They’re very much doing exactly what they mean to do.
Ah, the Good Ol’ Boy Routine, guild edition. Ask the Lightning Lancers how that turned out.
Maybe not in your guild. We’re all going to run ours the way we’re comfortable with. Thanks.
Karastone and OP, who has posted on two different characters, are pushing for inherent forgiveness, and the idea that you’re a callous person if you find out someone has issues and don’t let them into your guild. Even if they’re prone to violently angry, racially-charged, or sexist outbursts. They haven’t made it your problem yet, and you should let them.
After all, enabling is the best weapon against horrible behavior.
Oh thanks, I’ll let my officers know you’re okay with it.
Edit: Actually no, nowhere in your post does it say that. It’s just telling people how they should handle things, and what you think of them when they don’t listen.
Did I say people should support toxic individuals? No, I didn’t so please, would you not re-write my words.
I said, “This is not to say that the other side shouldn’t be heard…so listen, observe, and in time see for yourself.”
Also, “A good leader will also stand by their own until given a reason by that person not to. Racism, guild-stealing, sexism, general craziness, will show up if it is a real problem.”
Should be obvious that I think toxic, racist, sexist people should be kicked. I would never want that in my guild. I’m lucky to be in one where that isn’t so far an issue.
I’m not pushing inherent forgiveness, the whole point is that said person has done nothing yet that needs to be forgiven.
You said that negative behavior should be ignored or forgiven because that will cause their heart to grow three sizes that day, and they’ll stop being bullies.
To YOU. And if that’s a reason to ignore it, then that’s a problem. If someone has been abusive and bullied others, I’m not really self-absorbed enough to consider it a freebie, because I wasn’t the victim at that time.
The problem with this idea, though, is that they quite frequently don’t show up for a while.
Abusers thrive on silence and they know how to hide. They discredit their victims, they claim conspiracy, they deny and hide and lie. And, all too often, GMs stand beside them and become complicit in their abuse.
“I didn’t see it.” “Are you sure he meant it that way?” “I’m sure you’re overreacting.”
The refrains from GMs who’ve stood by their own are familiar to anyone who’s been harassed on this server. And while the sentiment of standing by your own is noble, assuming that as the default is foolish. It’s much wiser to listen to the victims and figure out what happened than immediately assume your guildmate is golden.
Because while you’re making excuses for them, you own every atrocity they commit.
And can we not ignore the fact that the OP diverted COMPLETELY from their actual first post, which was honestly just telling people “You didn’t see anything, keep your eyes down, keep walking.”