Guild Banks Pt. 14

My argument for them has always been:

  1. Guild bank alts/bank alts existed in vanilla.
  2. Guild bank alts/bank alts were a bit of an exploit, in my opinion, because you could get free bag space and deposit from any mailbox. Blizzard allowed it because there wasn’t an alternative, but I don’t believe anyone could argue that it was intended.
  3. One of my absolute pet hates in vanilla was walking through IF and seeing 50 or so level 1 gnomes in tuxedos with various bank-related names standing on and around a mailbox - disgusting. Anyone who still thinks that’s funny should be permabanned for crimes against intelligence.
  4. All of the above means there a tonne of characters on every server created solely for convenience.

There are more points but these are mine.

So, that being said, can the ‘against’ party indulge me for a minute:
In a purely hypothetical vanilla future, ignoring any perceived dev time, Blizzard puts a guild bank in Org and a guild bank in IF. Permission-wise they function the same as they do today, there’s only one per faction, and for argument’s sake let’s say they cost 300g for the first tab which has as many slots as a new character’s bank does.
The details could be discussed further but would you guys still have a problem with a system that is nearly identical in functionality, but actually looks like a bank?

Again, ignore the dev time component unless you’re a Blizzard dev please. That’s not your argument to have. Looking at you Fesz.

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Hard to say that it’s in the spirit of vanilla if it’s a Burning Crusade change, isn’t it? You’re assigning all these benefits to guild banks that don’t exist.

Is that what you think happened when guild banks were added? Because that’s not what happened, lol.

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Have you got that auto-replace thing set up so that every time you write ‘guild bank’ it replaces it with “the non vanilla QOL convenience of guild bank”?? :joy::joy:

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I see the argument continues to spin its wheels in the mud and while I am firmly in the no changes camp, I am also cursed by both the ability and willingness to examine both sides of the argument.

There is the one indisputable point that guild banks were not in the game prior to the release of The Burning Crusade. For some, that point in and of itself is all of the justification needed for their exclusion and it’s not an unreasonable position to maintain given Blizzard’s stated goal of creating a museum piece. The argument then breaks down as cost cutting and technical changes being considered blur the line on just how committed Blizzard is to a faithful recreation of the original. This is not helped by Blizzard’s unwillingness to state a definitive position nor by its inconsistency with regards to how strict they are in abiding by their own rules.

Another point of contention has been the issue of security. For me, this is the weakest argument that’s been presented. Those inclined to steal will steal regardless of the system being used. The log says nothing more than who took what and that means nothing given the taking was permitted by the guild bank level access assigned by the guild master. This is perhaps the occasion where Blizzard’s unwillingness to follow their own rules muddies the water the most.

Convenience is also hotly debated, often in concert with the tech changes but also with the concepts of either the “spirit” or “feel” of the original Warcraft. There is no doubt that guild banks would make large scale inventory management more convenient. Equally there is no doubt that the game thrived prior to the addition of guild banks. However, as I see there does exist the seed of potential for a counter to that argument and it goes thusly: Blizzard has always been reactive to players, their wants, needs and play styles. Even if the examination is limited in scope to the 1.X.X time frame you can see that Blizzard was monitoring systems they felt were somehow lacking and adjusted them accordingly going forward. Inventory management was one of those systems with Blizzard making changes to stack sizes of some items to allow more inventory to be carried not only out in the world, but also stored in the banks. The danger to the counter lies in the fact that taken to extremes, Classic more and more closely resembles modern day Warcraft.

Finally, we come to the most subjective of points: the “spirit” or “feel” of the original Warcraft. (Disclaimer: My personal WoW experience started in TBC, shortly after release but well before the great XP nerf) However, I hope that most will agree that the spirit of WoW depends largely on when one started playing. If one’s original memory of WoW is a certain version of AV, the spirit of WoW is closely linked to the game at that time. The same applies to end game, PvP, etc.

Perhaps this is the strongest example of my no changes bias because this is the cause of greatest concern. While Blizzard may have once been a game by gamers for gamers, that is no longer the case. Player comments and feedback are either in the process of being or have already been totally replaced by metrics. At the very least this hints at the idea that Blizzard’s original vision for Classic could be altered by whatever their metrics tell them is causing the player count to drop. Again, Blizzard does themselves no favors with the silence and inconsistency.

So, in the immortal words of Sonny and Char, The Beat Goes On.

TLDR: Vanilla Warcraft was different things to different people. These variations in perception allow justification for both strict adherence to the past and changes that share conceptual connection to the original. Let the debate rage on.

P.S. My personal take on the subject is to let Classic launch without guild banks and see how the game progresses because if they are ever added to the game players will most certainly exploit them to the fullest. Alex, I’ll take One Man Guilds for a thousand.

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Spirit of Vanilla seems to be the feeling of the community interactions. Something gbanks do not take away from only enhances.

Well technically what happened was they were released and no one seemed to know what permissions were for. Then the community proved exactly how trusting we should be in online gaming when multiple people across all servers decided pillaging the gbank was an easy way to make some gold.
Which some in Vanilla enjoyed doing but no one was ever aware of because it’s easy to hide when you control the inventory tracking out of game.

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first person I respect their insight on the topic. Like I said im not for or against but I will say this is the first actual response to my questions and stuff I respect. Well said sir

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This is exactly what happens with bank alts. Free storage space for miles; just make another toon when you run out.

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I gotta say he says that every time he wants to argue somethin bro lmao

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And another too means 50+ more free space in the mail system as well.

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Good overall recap. You give me hope! I can appreciate and respect your stance.
I agree perception is where this is at odds. We seen that with the “Will you still play thread”.

In your P.S. you mention 1 man guild banks. Suggestions have been given to combat that but that was twisted into a derailment attempt on negotiations.
To which i now reply. Since gbanks were introduced. Blizz has done nothing to stop one man guilds. For the same reason they didn’t try to stop gba’s: inventory management is not core gameplay.

No issue with personal gbanks or restrictions on them. Others can “negotiate” that. LOL

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People who tried to “enhance” the game eventually created modern WoW. Let’s keep those “enhancements” out of Classic.

If you want guild banks, play BfA. It’s already there. You can already enjoy the stronger community of guild banks.

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Johnny in Gadgetzan is going to ask Billy in Stormwind to throw that thorium in the guild bank in Stormwind so he can withdraw it in Gadgetzan when he doesn’t even have permission to withdraw from the guild bank?

RIIIIIIGHT!!!

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Let me put it to all of you kindly

[Insert request X]
|
|
V
Was X present/available in Vanilla?
| |
| |
YES NO
| |
| |
V V
Belongs in Classic It’s not gamebreaking so chill, be smart

gj u just proved our point. Theres permissions so that certain people can or cant manipulate the bank. Smart man ladies and gentlemen

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Yes, I would.

Guild banks were NEVER part of vanilla. Adding guild banks would not be as close to vanilla as orcishly possible.

You can try to disguise them as much as you want, but the fact that they were NEVER part of vanilla CANNOT be denied, no matter how much Red wants to try to deny that fact.

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Right. This is interesting to me.

So to be clear, put that last example aside, even if they functioned in exactly the same way, except that they were a static object/NPC instead of a player, you would be against them?

Now we’re getting somewhere.

Also, this argument that they were never part of vanilla. What is a guild bank alt?

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No they didn’t. The people who created modern wow bought/sold gold in Vanilla. Showing these game companies theres literally millions being left on the table by their product and being picked up by 3rd parties. Birth of the microtransaction changed gaming. Including wow.
A free gold stream is what gbanks help plug up.

Well. Buy my rig, pay my sub, internet, and cost of living for me, my Shar Pei and my gf. Then I might let ya tell me what I can play. Maybe but I highly doubt it. Lol

While I don’t play today’s WoW, I have around half a dozen one man guilds. With regards to storage space and crafting, I’m practically self-sufficient for my casual play style. Some will see that as a way in which guild banks do damage to player interaction.

What are you doing that requires so much space??

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If they function in exactly the same way, why do you need that static NPC/object?

It couldn’t possibly be because they would NOT function in the exact same way and you want the convenience that static NPC/onject provides, could it?

Not a guild bank, that’s for sure.

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