Keep in mind that Classic DID eventually become BfA. And WoD.
And it happened because changes slowly but surely “made the game better.”
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Where did I say that everyone who ever suggested a change wanted Classic to be as far from vanilla as possible?
There are at least one or two posters on these forums that apparently want classic to be as far from vanilla a possible.
As for “making classic better”, that is subjective. That non vanilla QOL convenience change that you feel is better or an improvement , others may think would make classic worse. Similarly, you may not agree with that non vanilla QOL convenience change that Johnny thinks is better or an improvement.
There is one thing about all those various “suggested” non vanilla QOL convenience changes upon which every honest person can agree. They were NEVER part of vanilla and would not be in keeping with the stated goal of the project–to provide a classic product that is as close to vanilla as orcishly possible.
We get it. There are those that do not want classic. They want classic +, vanilla lite, EZ mode vanilla or possibly even BFA in a vanilla setting. That is not the stated goal of this project, though.
Aka why THINK is capitalized.
However that doesn’t mean ALL changes were bad. Blizzard now has a history to look back on and see how specific changes had their effects, good and bad. And can likely find a few changes in that list that would be GOOD for classic.
As an example, the calendar update that we got in wrath to scedual guild events, show us when holiday events were happening, exc. That would be a GOOD change for classic, but hay that single change will lead to BFA2.0 right?
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To emphasize
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You clearly hinted at it here
“It appears that those who want classic to be made as far from vanilla as possible are losing that battle also.”
Showing you believe there are people that are suggesting changes JUST to try and ruin classic.
And ratzy based on your past posts even before the forum changes it shows that that is your mindset.
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Non vanilla QoL change is a term used to hamstring Blizzard’s options to do what they wish with their own intellectual property.
IMO Blizzard is making Classic as a fire and forget product. Once the game is launched, errors corrected, and populations normalized. Blizzard will afk.
If guild bank being added to Classic facilities this then Blizzard will blow right by any preconditions. - source evidence “sharding and loot trading”
To think “non vanilla” is a stopping factor is to assume that purity is top priority. Which we know it isn’t. (Even if it’s #2 it is still runner up to something)
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There is no classic+ because there is no classic, classic is going to be a new product and if people are suggesting changes from vanilla it’s because not everyone just mindlessly thinks vanilla was a perfect game.
And the reality is we already know of some fairly significant changes we are getting in classic.
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One thing classic will have that Retail will not is community. People that play classic will have to form a community to achieve goals. It might make some of the players stick around there because guilds will have meaning again, quests that had elite mobs that required real groups to finish. People might actually have to depend on one another.
I’m not “hinting” at anything there.
I’m saying point blank that there are people that apparently want Classic to be as far from vanilla as possible.
That does not mean that I think that everyone who “suggests” changes fall into that category, though.
None of them would be “good” for Classic, because they wouldn’t be Classic. Classic isn’t a 2.0 kind of project; from the mouths of the devs, it’s meant to be a time capsule. There might be a tiny handful of technical aspects to change (meant to reduce server stress and support ticket flow) but the gameplay experience will be as close to the same as possible.
The design philosophy here is not “improve the game,” it is “restore the game.”
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“Non vanilla QOl convenience changes” is exactly what many of those “suggested changes” are.
Calling it like it is and not trying to disguise it is hardly trying to “hamstring Blizzard’s options”, IMO.
The problem is that some do not want that community, though.
Some only see all those other players in an MMO as nothing but obstacles in their way. Others see all those other players as nothing but conniving thieves waiting to steal everyone blind.
well if you do not want community you can be a loner. I was just suggesting that in Classic it would be to peoples advantage to group up because individually you will not be able to do everything yourself, unlike retail.
No, you are calling it that for one purpose. To attempt to sway actions via an emotional demagogue.
Almost as if it’s anything different than saying #noChange.
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I completely agree with that sentiment. Not everyone agrees with us, though.
There are those that apparently want to play a solo game in a multiplayer environment.
There are those that will be bringing the retail “version” of guilds to classic. They do not want a “family” with whom they can share the game in its entirety. They simply want a convenient central place to store there resources and a “regular group of players” for a couple of hours (raid) once or twice a week.
The list of things I can do solo compared to what requires a group in retail vs vanilla is pretty much the same.
I’m simply calling those “suggested” non vanilla QOL conveniences what they are.
You can assume any ulterior motive you want for that action, but you CANNOT deny that I am calling them what they ARE.
You would not be able to do the raids, or possibly even some of the dungeons by yourself. You will not be able to out level them. I remember doing the elite quests where all the mobs where elites and required a group. I do think I solo’d some of those.
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Which do you believe is higher priority to Blizzard?
No Change or overhead/operations costs.
If the metrics collected over the years by Blizzard illustrates a desire to add guild banks based on overhead. Does no change stand a chance?
It’s quite obvious that if adding a guild bank system didn’t deliver relief on the backend then no change will hold. Adding for player convenience alone isn’t enough.
Adding for Blizzard convenience very well could be.
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You also can not logically deny that you call calling it whatever you want to label it to every single post possible. That shows your hand. It’s not about the label it’s about shutting down discussion.
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Yeah pugging raids in vanilla is harder since there’s no LFR. But other than that, leveling can be done entirely solo, BG’s have a queue system and dungeons were routinely pugged.
So outside of raiding you could lone wolf it just about as much in vanilla as you can in retail.
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