When the blue starts his post with the words “I believe…”, it is a personal opinion. This was later confirmed by another blue addressing that post and stating that it was a personal opinion.
And then there’s my quote which said nothing about personal opinion.
But still no pitchforks directed at blues that I could see.
You’re talking about two different things and you know this.
Go back and read the posts to which I responded and you will see that you are the one who is speaking of two different things.
the tweets and angry posts were all in our minds?
No, nobody said anything about the posts being the same.
No one has yet provided those tweets or angry posts to back up their claim that the “no change” crowd drove the blues away or directed pitchforks at them.
The only thing that Ziryus has so far provided to back up his claim that the “no change” faction drove the blues away is a link to a blue giving his personal opinion, beginning that post with the words “I believe”. That post was followed by many pro changers taking that personal opinion as an official Blizzard statement.
A later blue post even stated that the post that was linked was a personal opinion.
I saw no pitchforks in that thread, let alone any directed at that blue, though.
Maybe you could provide those tweets and angry posts to back up that claim.
Or you could just take your tolling self back to your bridge.
Nobody specifically said anything about the posts being the same, but, IMO, any reasonable person reading that back and forth would see that it was the same post being addressed.
You just edited your post saying JUST THAT.
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The fact they’re willing to change the API to disallow these types of addons speaks volumes. The fact Ion says it’s unfair to ask players to choose to not use an addon that would essentially be mandatory speaks volumes. The fact they’re adding the hour delay to mail in order to incentivize players to go out in the world, interact with the player, and deliver it in person speaks volumes.
Posters here can talk all they want about convenience and quality of life improvements, but it’s quite clear that Blizzard is putting authenticity first and foremost. Blizzard clearly wants community to be meaningful and social interaction to be a big part of Classic. They want reputations to matter. And your reputation can only matter when the capacity exists to earn a bad reputation.
I talk a lot here about players applying BfA values to Classic, and this is precisely what I mean. It’s a narrow view taken from only one perspective. When it comes to the lack of Guild Banks, for example, most posters here only see the perceived negatives. They don’t take the time to even consider the positives. They don’t see the value in fostering trust and faith in your fellow players. They don’t see the community strengthening aspect. How it impacts players’ reputations.
There are dozens and dozens of factors like this that go into creating the environment of the game, and how players view and interact with one another. From Guild Banks (or lack thereof), to mob tagging, to node sharing, to trading, and so on and so forth. Each little element plays a role. Some are very subtle. Many players don’t even notice them, but they do affect how you perceive the other players. Often quite dramatically. Now some posters might say, “Well, this one little minor change wouldn’t have a big impact.” Maybe, maybe not. There’s many threads woven together to create the community of Classic. To pull on one of those threads is to risk unraveling the entire tapestry.
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Communication virtually went silent for a year after this thread. There were multiple permabans and heavy moderation, so what you see in that thread isn’t even all of it. No-changers absolutely lost it over some harmless CM to community interaction.
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I read through that thread. I did not see any pitchforks directed at the blues. Maybe they were “moderated” and removed. The closest thing to a pitchfork I saw was the OP pointing out that a post made by a blue containing that blue’s personal opinion was being taken as an official Blizzard statement by the pro change faction.
I did see members of the “no change” faction correctly pointing out that many of those asking for changes to classic never wanted classic to be made in the first place and were contributors to the “wall of NO”. They also made the point that many of those “suggesting” changes either never played during vanilla, only played on private servers or were retail players trying to being the retail mindset to classic.
There is at least one poster on these forums that on many occasions used that very post made by a blue, giving his personal opinion, as an official statement asking for “discussion” every time he “suggested” or supported any non vanilla QOL convenience change.
Yet, for some reason, those very same pro changers who twisted a blue’s personal opinion into an official Blizzard statement want to claim that the “no change” faction drove those blue’s away, despite the lack of evidence to support that claim.
Thats not even the thread that people use as an excuse for lack of cm communication. I would look for it and post it but why bother, it needs to go away and never be brought into the light again.
While the thread they do use did indeed get nasty realistically the only people to blame are the blues. It should have been closed long before it got to the point it did.
Where the blues went wrong is they voiced a personal opinion on a blue character instead of an alt
I agree that hindsight definitely shows us that it would have been better if that blue had chosen to give his personal opinion using a different avatar and not his Blue avatar.
Having said that, though, that blue was very careful to make it clear that his post was his personal opinion.
IMO, the real fault lies with those pro changers who twisted that personal opinion into an official Blizzard request for discussion on any number of non vanilla changes.
No it doesn’t. Raiders used CT and other addons all the damn time.
A very small percentage of players raided, though.
I would say that every player is going to be either forming or looking for a group at some point, though.
We’ll have to wait and see and how far Blizzard decides to go with their plan to restrict add-ons that duplicate social things added after vanilla, such as the “modern” LFG tool.
It was stated ON STAGE that they were looking at non-vanilla changes.
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And THAT statement made on stage was an official Blizzard statement, NOT a personal opinion like the one in that blue post that was twisted by the pro change faction into an official Blizzard statement. I’m not surprised that you refuse to see the difference, though.
If I recall correctly, even you tried to use that blue’s post giving his personal opinion as an official Blizzard statement asking for discussion on many occasions to justify your repeated “suggestions” for non vanilla QOL convenience changes.
As far as that official Blizzard statement made on stage, Blizzard was careful to mention the types of non vanilla changes they might make. Those do not include any non vanilla balance changes, game play changes, etc.
Man, you’re just a troll dude. It’s getting really obvious at this point. They said multiple times that changes were not definite, or even being considered but that the discussion around them was worthwhile to have.
I’ve really done quite well uncovering what’s really here with a lot of No-changers. Mogar claiming to want an absolutely authentic experience while asking for changes to all the Vanilla water to be completely opaque. Twidget using the Inky Black Potion on BfA, while claiming that was the authentic Vanilla WoW night and wanting Blizzard to aim for that level of darkness.
And many more hypocritical “No-changes except the ones I want” posters.
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