Im guessing you havent played any other tanks. Or done some of the higher keys.
Bear is most certainly not in a good place rn when compared to the other tanks.
4 Likes
Now im really worried for these changes
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This is my Live build I like to be able to help off heal and help out if i have the time to kite or Down time in-between Certain boss mechanics to pop out and heal ect ect
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And this will be what the Patch Build will look like in order for me to be able to even get Legacy of the sleeper, that means ill end up having to get rid of Scintillating Moonlight 10% reduced damage, take thorns and then get Rage of the Sleeper
Its kinda like now they made to where u have to stick to one side and commit to that one side there isnt any room to dibble dabble on the other side of the tree w/o losing some Key things
You are losing dps come next week. Raze is still bugged too.
I hope people realize that the new talent tree does absolutely nothing to improve bear. It is nerfing its damage and then it gives nothing defensively in return. It is actually sad that the person who is working on this tree doesnt understand bear at all. So many nods feel terrible to take and differing play styles are mixed throughout the tree.
The class has no identity and excels in nothing besides maybe group healing but half the time, after the wild fire is overhealing. Berserk being broken into the three talents is awful design and then also nerfing the trash/mangle spam is terrible. Thorns in the arcane side of the tree is actually troll. Putting one of bears best def CD in rage in the arcane portion of the tree makes no sense. Both plays styles should have access to it. UFR being shield value of 30% from damage is actually awful and does not help us really survive since trash, magle/raze will not shield enough in compariosn to GG/arcane healing. Lunar beam hits and heals like a wet noddle as well. Why the hell does bear have 18 nods to choose from in the bottom portion of the tree?
Our Mastery scales like utter trash when bears are supposed to be the HP tank but we are not. Still having frenzy regen on the GCD feels so bad when bears are already in the trash can. Blizz needs to give bears actual talents and moves to deal with all the damage this expansion. They are the lowest and worst tank for a reason and its wild Blizz cannot even see it.
9 Likes
well said , maybe its time to level a prot war and be inmortal gearing him should be easy since ya can do +20s naked apparently
2 Likes
I think thatās a bit disingenuous. Iām now pushing 17s and feel comfortable going into 18s with a left right build that utilizes dream plus ursocs fury. My dps is 30k overall so quite low, but my survivability is there. I donāt understand why DoC builds are considered unviable. Iām 2300 ish io and am confident of hitting 2400 soon enough. Is this still considered low? I donāt think the community is running 20s+ as an average.
Can anyone answer from a game design standpointā¦
Guardian druidās problem is being squishy. So they changed around and added things that deal with dps, and a self heal? Why did they not address the problem they are having which is tankiness? Iām so confused. Genuinely.
1 Like
Iām still waiting for them to address why they canāt fix the Mastery scaling thatās so terrible, why itās a good idea to have such an amazing Mastery but you canāt even utilize it really because of such garbage scaling.
Why it is a bad thing to have such high HP when your healing received is also buffed, so yeah. We will keep on waiting for a while for these answers.
1 Like
I didnāt say left side is non viable, Iām actually going to be playing with it this weekend to see if it helps how glasslike I feel. My point was that most of the people saying guardian is fine, and has no problems, are people who have sub 10 keys as their greatest achievement, and resto druids who donāt even tank.
They are seeing an admittedly big heal in doc, and going āthis would fix everythingā, without really understanding that even if DOC was a full heal, that doesnāt fix the issue of getting chunked for 70% of your health in a few seconds outside of a cooldown. Iāve had moments where I literally couldnāt hit frenzied fast enough, because from the initial chunk, to being finished off, I was GCD locked.
Itās obvious that guardian CAN tank, I do it, itās just miserable compared to warriors who are just bears, but better in every way, from an mplus perspective.
Most of guardianās current problems are rooted in old nerfs that they made end of previous expansions, but never reverted.
The nerfs to dire Bear armor formula, which leads to bears paradoxically having less armor without ironfur than other tanks of equal ilvl. This one is obscene, my 370 or so warrior has as much armor baseline as my 401 bear with a stack of ironfur.
The nerfs to mastery scaling because we were hitting impressive health values at the end of an expansion.
Removal of abilities like mark of ursol, without replacing it with anything to answer magic damage. Magic damage has been a consistent problem for guardian since end of legion, and viability being determined by how overloaded an expansion is with magic damage, feels awful.
4 Likes
DOC is great, but it isnāt the only offering the left side brings. Ursocās fury shields are nothing to sneeze at especially following a Tooth & Claw proc. Rend & Tear dmg reduction on top of Scintillating moonlight helps smooth out damage intake. And then thereās Earthwarden, on a tyrannical week itās very powerful. These three together elevate our mitigation to a serviceable level, comparing it to prot warriors logs on wowlogs, these talents absorb about half as much damage as ignore pain does in the course of a dungeon.
We of course have relatively short defensive CDs to cycle through. But if and when the damage slips through and your hp spikes, it sure is nice to have DOC on deck to pick us back up before the healer blows a cd.
With all that said, Guardian, isnāt okay. Itās probably the worst tank of the bunch. We are inferior warriors in every way. I wish the changes theyāve proposed went further. Iād have liked to see a more refined talent tree, giving us better options while removing baggage talents that gatekeep us from desirable proceeding talents (Layered Mane, Iām looking at you.) They included damage talents that are unfortunately too costly to pick up. Current builds that work now canāt weave in these new options without giving up something crucial. It doesnāt feel good.
2 Likes
I believe they need to rethink guardians from scratch really, than maybe add the abilities afterwards.
What kind of tank do they want bears to be? atm its just in a limbo whithout direction, where devs toss in random stuff at random places on the talent tree.
If they figure out what guardians are actually supposed to do as a tank (apart form looking like a bear) than fitting abilities with values & scaling into that system afterwards wont be so hard.
And I would like an actual tankmechanic for bearsā¦poorly scaling mastery stat is old now ^^
5 Likes
Pre nerfs to mastery, and direbear form, they occupied a pretty obvious niche. High EHP, high mitigation vs physical. It worked pretty well, could have maybe used some kind of rage dump to replace mark of ursol(I think a magic damage only absorb shield would have probably worked), but was viable.
More spoilers:
Ironfur is Bad.
3 Likes
Iāve finally tanked my way into 15s. And at this point, me, being a Guardian, is causing keys to fail. I have have DR from thrash, moonfire, tooth and claw, RotS, 2 charges of SI, and I went DoC. Iām getting taken down so fast, I canāt hit Regrowth fast enough. Iām 398 ILVL right now.
Waste my time on this character i swear. Whatās the point of a being an RPG if your forced into playing a warrior meta? I am absolutely frustrated right now.
- 2nd boss in NO was crushing me when it would get one orb.
- Last boss of RLP 15 was one shotting me after dragon was dead.
- 3rd boss in TotJS, was destroying me. Yes, i know i have to run out of the kick faster, but the dot was crushing me. Iād get out and barely have any life.
- I had to spec into DoC for the Bird Boss in AA. I didnāt have enough CDs to keep up with the dmg it was doing. The Regrowth procs saved me and I kept a couple of the other people alive too.
-----yes i cycle my CDs.
I personally think Bear is bugged. Sometimes i can run like a god. Then there will be a few dungeons in a row where im getting one shot (or near). They need to take a guardian into AA and do Big Bird. Likeā¦ how are the other tanks handling that? Itās savage peckā¦ all phyiscalā¦ thatās our thingā¦ and we canāt do it.
1 Like
I will say bear can survive all those things. Thats much more so of a cd timing problem for ye. But bear is in a rough way rn.
1 Like
Glad someone said it.
Every single one of those issues seemed like issues understanding boss mechanics. TJS is the roughest because of frequency. AA a close second, but Iāve tanked as a Brewmaster too and that was so much worse to manage.
Ya, bear now is entirely cd management. If you dont some cd for eveey pull and plan carefully you will eat sooo much dmg.
2 Likes
I have only gone up to +13 on bear and +16 on prot war and the difference seems minimal, yeah Bear can be squishy at times but they do way more damage and bring battle rez, all tanks are in a good place except monk, just because bear is not top doesnt mean its in a bad place.
Warriors dont get Battle Rez, they dont get a sprint button for the group, they do sub par dps, Vers buff is better than attack power buff, war is also not as good at picking up adds as druid. War are not superior to Druid in ever catagory, you are just focusing on gaps in your gameplay and attributing them to class inbalance.
Yaa no. Trust me man i have played and watched both. Prot warrior is significantly better and in reality does significantly more dmg, idk what your doin that lowers your dmg.
Plus the whole utility bit bdk is significantly better then bear and has br aswell so ehh.
Along with every group generally already having a br and ms since druid is the most played class in the game.
3 Likes