Yes there is a good chance i am prob just not that good on the Prot warrior DPS wise, i do about 25k overall for the dungeon (ilevel 397) , my bear(ilevel 386) is usually 30-35k overall and this is for mythic +13-15 range for both classes. I find having BR particular is a huge advantage when you PUG is why i keep mentioning it because war lacking BR imo is a huge minus.
But every group will have a br already. Paladin, warlock, druid, dk.
Just look at bdks they essentially cant die unless played horribly. Prot warrior is almost braindead to play due to the frequency of cds and defensives which allow them to mitigate significantly more then bear couod ever even imagine.
Just look at earthwarden and how much it does in keys, then you realize warrior instead of having that at max only stacking to 3 every 4 to 5 seconds, they have it for every pack for about 80 to 90% of a dungeon.
That lvl of defense allows for healers to do more and allows for significantly denser pulls more often.
Having a br just isnt unique to make bear good when soo many problems exist in the spec that makes them soo squishy and have health spikes like a budget bdk.
Fair point with BR, its usefulness is highly dependent on group comp.
I dont use earthwarden for mythics so I cant speak on that but I will try it out. I can say Bear is by far the easiest tank to play and is designed that way. Bear is an entry level tank, I swipe, thrash, swipe and use mangle. I macro in most abilities that are off the global to simple cast on CD. There is no block to keep up, there is no rend to spread with clunky thunderclap. Im not saying prot war is difficult to play but def not as easy as bear and requires many more keybinds/macros.
I mention DPS because it goes hand in hand with mitigation. Monk DPS is highest and they are the squishest. Second highest tank DPS is bear and they are the second squishiest. In last place for DPS is Blood DK and yes, they are the least squishy.
I just think when people are comparing bear to other tanks they need to factor in the high DPS, it is unreasonable to expect druid to be second highest DPS and not the second most squishy.
As a side note I would say from my exp all the tanks are fairly close and the biggest variable is whether or not the DPS interrupt and whether or not the healer knows when the tank busting hits are coming.
I think youâve never seen a decent prot warrior or never played as one if you think this is in any way, shape or form true. Theyâre literally better in every category than nearly all other tanks.
Like, if they had a group heal like bears do, theyâd literally full on be better in every single aspect, then, and would 100% replace bears, outside of those just rolling for the fantasy of it.
They actually do more damage, yes.
If you go to Warcraftlogs and go look at the raids section, their max damage outweighs bearâs max damage by a lot, not just a little bit but I mean itâs a LOT. Their average is less because people get to actually get away with playing the spec at 20% of its power and keeping up with bears.
Since you can translate a key environment over from a raid environment aoe fight, you can assume they do a lot more damage than bears do in keys, too based off fights like primal council.
Also, they feel 10 times better to play than bears do. They feel that way than the rest of the tanks, really. People are envious of them because their spec is actually a full complete spec, talents and spec wise. Itâs not some half assed version like other tanks have, itâs a complete spec.
Also, this is fixed through the bracers that people can add a brez tinkerer thing to and be capable of brezzing as any class/spec.
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You cant really compare any raid damage to Mythic Keys as you spec completely different for each one FYI. My exp is mostly with mythic plus so you may be correct about the raid damage I can really speak on that but I can say for sure Bears are higher DPS in keys.
I have played Prot warrior since the launch of wow so yeah I know how to play them, just because they are the current flavor of the month does not make them a god class,. I will explain how this works to you so you know going forward. Most mythic tanks have all tanks at max level and play whichever is the most powerful at the moment. This creates a huge skill gap between people playing the current flavor of the month and those that opt not to and in turn creates a perception that there is a huge balance gap, there isnt. Most of those prot wars that are tanking top end keys and raids where doing it with Demon Hunters season one of SL and Prot Pal season 2, then Blood DK season 3 ect. All the tanks fall within the range of skill/group comp being the most important factor in success not what tank you take.
This is completely subjective and I would say adds little to the discussion. I would say its odd to say a Druid doesnt feel like a complete class because its not like prot war.
You realize fully that flavor of the month is because of the differences, correct? It actually does make it god class, and I donât mean unkillable or anything, I mean if itâs the meta tank in that moment, in that season, that means it is actually the best and acknowledged as the best. As was said by every winner and by Vin Diesel in The Fast and the Furious; every line people love to quote: âIt doesnât matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning.â This precisely sums up meta picks; whether by a fraction or a huge gap, it doesnât matter how much better it is; the fact is it is itâs still better.
So youâre acknowledging and contradicting your first statement, k.
In most scenarios you are correct, but as we have just demonstrated before; winning is winning. Being the best spec for the role means your spec is actually a god, no? Youâre not like unkillable, but you are the best.
What do you mean? Go and ask many tanks, they will and have been telling you, even in this very thread, bears feel incomplete and bad compared to Prot Warriors. If you canât understand that, I mean, we can break it down and have broken it down for you between mitigation, between damage, talent trees, etc. Itâs all right there in many posts.
If you still canât understand that, sorry, but you may need to learn a bit more comprehension for the English language. Nonetheless, yes, it actually is a terrible spec design wise because it can be so very much better but it isnât. We all love the spec but just because we love the spec doesnât mean it has guaranteed blind loyalty to it. That nonsense serves no purpose at all and will not get it to become better, only criticism gets it better.
Rerollers will be rerollers for sure, but they do that for a reason. Yes, all tank specs are similarly close to where if people put them in a category most would rank at least 3 of the 6 tank specs in next to top tier/category while the other 2-3 have Prot Warrior in the very top tier, maybe DH up there too. Below the majority you see many people putting Monk in there. This is all due to how the specs play and how they feel. Do not forget, the most powerful thing to any player is how a spec feels to play and then how it actually plays. Rerollers will play whatever is the best numerically speaking, but everyone else plays whatever feels the best to play, so if the spec feels like garbage, as in the case for bears, many players will stop playing it simply because of feelings and how strong those feelings are, good or bad.
I am not saying Prot wars are not the best tank overall at the moment, they clearly are.
Im saying the differences between the tanks are not so significant that they outweigh skill/group comp and for 99% of people playing what tank you choose will not significantly impact your progress.
Most players that can do +20-25 keys can do it with any tank. However, most of these players are min/max players and choose the tank that is currently on top (there can only be one at a time) . It creates this perception among the wow community that the gap is bigger than it is. A perfect example can be found here with what you said
Too much reading online and not enough playing has convinced you that wars are 5 times as good as bears and that a war at 20 percent can equal a bear, this is nonsense.
Just because wars are the best at the moment does not make druids bad. Warriors current mitigation if anything is overkill and much like overhealing, wasted.
Ignore Pain clearly disagrees with you on this, as would the talent tree, too. Show me Barkskin and SI and compare their uptimes, their damage reduction towards the end of a dungeon and compare them to Ignore Pain, Spell Reflect.
Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNjXI_G8Tkk This video is enough proof. Other tanks are not able to do this, more specifically bears are not able to do this kind of nonsense.
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None of this is true, all of these things are good for druids and druids do them exceptionally well. You have been saying because they do not equal or surpass prot war ability to do them it means druids are bad, it doesnt.
Also the druid tank doesnt exist in a vacuum, keep in mind the meta healer right now is the druid. Its unreasonable to expect one class to be the best healer and the best tank in the game, there are 12 other classes besides druidâŚ
Oh good god its the video of the no armor war again. At some point you have to accept the fact that people running high keys are just better at running dungeons regardless of class. No amount of druid buffs are going to outweigh a coordinated group on discord with exp playing together. Its likely that group could do that dungeon with any tank regardless of gear or spec, perhaps they could do it without a tank who knows. The video proves nothing in terms of tank balance unless they posted it again with an armorless druid, DH, Pal ect.
I think youâre being quite stubborn and being obtuse and disingenuous and trying to say âeverything is fineâ no, everything is not âfineâ and Iâm pretty sure youâre one of those types of players who would say âeverything is fineâ even if your favorite spec got a big pile of crap dumped on it by blizzard. âEverything is fine, donât worry about it.â Thatâs the kind of personality I get from just these few go arounds. I know a lot of people like that, and everything is never fine with them, but they wonât acknowledge things arenât good and keep trying to look towards the positive side instead of acknowledging the very bad, too.
This has nothing to do with Tanks. Specs are specs, people donât look at classes as a whole and blizzard doesnât balance saying âwell, the best healer right now is the Druid, so that means Guardian cannot be the best tank.â Thatâs nowhere even close to any of their thought processes they have in regards to anything or there would still be hybrid taxes because hybrids can both heal and deal damage. This has not been the case for many years, so a certain spec being the best in one role making the other specs unable to be the best at other roles just doesnât exist.
Yes, they donât know how to design 10 of them to be good, as we clearly see on forums, on twitter, on Youtube, on any other social media that can be found to try and get their attention. Clearly they donât understand their game as much as we hope, we still play because there just arenât that many actually good games out there, or some of us are simply too stubborn and put in too much money already that they feel thereâs no going back, etc. Any other excuse is welcomed here, too.
At some point you just have to accept that some classes are simply better, too, that itâs not 100% a skill thing and also is an actual class design thing, too.
LOLOLOLOL k, so youâre just bad at understanding. Fair enough, discussion is over then. You really are the type of player to keep saying âitâs ok even if blizzard takes a massive crap on me, itâs ok.â
You really must not be playing the other tanks well or at a key lvl where you can tell the difference. Lets just say there is a massive difference in tankiness which is what actually matters.
Plus bear is most certainly not doing second most dps, it is much more so in the middle or a bit less for dmg. Single target and aoe while also being incredibly squishy.
It seems like you are going based on info from the beta and prepatch.
Its a fair point, I am just going by my own exp mixed with information online but admittedly I may not have pushed high enough on keys yet to feel an appreciable difference. I have only done a few 16s on my prot war and only up to 13s on Druid and DK so I can really only speak to keys in that range. I may be in here complaining about druid mitigation once I move into 15+ lol
Keys doo scale up very fast 3 lvls is quite a large difference rn.
Was some proper parses from the top 95% showing pwar doing absurds amount of dmgâŚim guessing low dps pwars has skillissues and are the fotm players.
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lol Zivestram has zero to add to this discussion, go away level 10
Zivestram is an example of what i was talking about , 1500+ posts, zero achievements and time played in the game
I got 33250 achie points on my mainâŚbut ok 
I know alot of peopel got far more than meâŚbutâŚyou definetly dont lol
My main is Zilvestram Ravencrest EU if you want to check, but eu forums have been dead since foreverâŚand for a long time there were actually no WoW forum at all on EU, hence I am here.
But its surprising to see how toxic you are and also how little you are able to contribute at the same timeâŚactually its a bit amazing. Why dont you just type âHunter weaponââŚyou probably are that guy.
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Well first of all calling me âtoxicâ from this discussion is pretty hilariously sensitive though im sure someone that makes a new account so they can participate in online forum discussions regarding class balance has a thick skinâŚ
Using some canned insult of calling me a low dps prot war who is a FOTM while referencing some âproper parsesâ is equally as entertaining. Since you have little original thought or opinion on the actual topic you lean on generic confrontational discourse.
I have over 220 days played on my prot war since launch, prob more than your entire account.
I dont care who your âmainâ is, add something with some intellectual value to the discussion if you want to be taken seriously