So what you’re saying is that Guardian Druids are the only ones having issues and therefore they’re the only ones to understand that problems exist?
Or are you just having a midlife crisis because your main is struggling? Go read the other class forums and get back to me on that one
There seems to be a consensus among everyone but you that Guardian is in the worst state among tanks.
Perhaps you are the one having the “mid life crisis” when you seem to show up to cast about lame rationalizations why blizzard never makes mistakes and la-la-la everything is fine, what’s wrong with all youse guys?
You act like you’re on a work assignment here, and you hate it but they gave you no choice.
I absolutely hate what they have done too Berserk. This was one of the highlights of playing Guardian. Berserk used to reduce the cooldown on mangle, thrash by 100%. Now you can no longer spam Thrash or mangle during Berserk. I just don’t like the nerf and think it was unnecessary. Game breaker for me. Leveling a DK now.
They made Pack and Cenarius really useless now. Pack doesnt proc from it cause it has its own healing forr some reason
According to which data? Or is it just personal feelings?
Nah, i’ve got my own quips about Blizzard and the things they do - I just not in here acting like my life is coming to an end over a video game. “Woe is me, i’m struggling at 14 key ranges so it’s definitely the spec and not my own shortcomings even though there’s Bears completing 22-23s”
And I thought it was just me, so who’s this reference to “youse guys”
If you look at the top 1000 tanks in M+ right now, only 15 of them are Guardian druids. What’s even more interesting is that Guardian doesn’t even show on the list until position 229. This means that when looking at a sample of the best M+ players in the world, Guardian druid has ~1.5% representation in content with peak difficulty ranging from M+22 → M+26, and 0% representation in content with peak difficulty ranging from M+24 → M+26.
Further, looking at the #1 ranked Guardian druid in the world, Haramabi, his highest timed key is a 24 SMBG. Looking at the #1 ranked Prot warrior in the world, Shuhwar, his highest timed key is a 26 SMBG. (And, I would like to remind those reading that the difference between a 24 and a 26 is enormous due to exponential scaling.)
You can check my numbers at Warcraftlogs, sadly I canot post the link to my dataset.
At the skill level that Shuhwar, Haramabi, and others in that tier are performing at, individual differences in player skill tend to be dwarfed by class/spec differences, making them a particularly useful demographic to analyze in order to find the performance differences of the individual specs.
I disagree, mythic plus is a group effort and using timed keys as a measuring stick for individual spec performance would not seem particular useful. There is so many variables there that have nothing to do with the spec or the skill level of the character. The idea that its based on the class of the tank alone ignores too many factors for me.
That is certainly true if we were looking at isolated runs and trying to make sweeping determinations based off of those results. Instead we are looking at a series of best-case runs within a demographic whose skill level is within margin of error of one another.
The logic here is as follows: With every possible combination of group composition, route, playstyle, and with an unlimited amount of attempts per run to achieve the best-case result, Guardian druids are sitting at a M+ wall of approximately +24. The same factors being true for Prot warrior, they are sitting a M+ wall of approximately +26.
Another way to look at it is by using IO score as an aggregate measure of ideal-case M+ performance. You may disagree with using IO score as an imperical measurement, and to an extent I agree that it is nowhere near perfect. That said, I still find it to be very useful as an indirect measurement of performance.
Looking at # of tanks with >2800 IO score:
Likewise, widening our view to >2400 shows the same relative trend as above, albeit with Brewmaster and Guardian switching places this time around.
Looking at # of tanks with >2400 IO score:
I will note some MAJOR shortcomings with this approach. First being that these numbers are not proportional to the number of tanks within each class bracket. This means that we cannot say for certain whether or not there are more IO scores for a given class becasue a class is underperforming, or because there are simply more people playing that class because it is more fun, popular, easy to play, etc. And second being that these numbers conflate both pre-10.0.5 and post-10.0.5 totals into one, and the issue at hand is not only whether or not Guardian druid is weaker than the other classes, but more importantly if 10.0.5 made them worse. (I tried really hard to pull data for total # of characters and the date each run was recorded, but without learning their API and sobering up a tad, this is the best we’re going to get.)
So, take the above numbers with as large of a grain of salt as you think is necessary, though, in my opinion, these numbers are still pretty interesting nonetheless and shouldn’t be ignored. What we can say for certain is that Guardian is a particularly underplayed spec compaired to the other tanks specs, with the only exception being to that of Brewmaster monk. My prediction is that the addition of the major nerfs in 10.0.5 is likely only going to widen that divide even further over the coming weeks and into season 2.
Everything you say is based on personal feelings. Your opinions are not fact, especially when you make up stuff in order to try to show you’re the only one who is right and everybody else is completely wrong and doesn’t know how to play.
Most of the ones I have seen over the years is you coming to the forum to do triage PR work after blizzard messes up druids badly, to try to claim they didn’t mess up at all.
See, when you fabricate lies like this in a vain attempt to mock people you know nothing about, it doesn’t actually help your credibility.
The idea that if there’s 1 bear with a carefully selected comp of elite friends doing the highest key means there’s nothing wrong with the spec is nothing but delusion. I recall when this happened in the past, weren’t you part of that argument claiming that every guardian should be able to kite as well as a guardian who had a mythic geared frost mage to slow when he kited, the only guardian who had done anywhere near such a high key?
If only .01% of players of a certain spec are able to succeed, while players of other specs have a 50% likelihood of succeeding, the problem is the spec, the designers, and you carrying water for that PR campaign you seem to be working on.
The numbers should be approximately equivalent for different classes, specs, and roles, or Blizzard has failed.
Same for me, except I won’t level again. I’m not paying a company and rewarding them when they make their game worse. I’ll watch for a reversion, but otherwise let my time lapse.
AoE raze is neat but not neat enough to offset. The shield is always tiny…
I did the Timewalking dungeons and felt like the changes weren’t too bad. Didn’t need too much healing and whatnot. But then my buddy havoc dh tanked a few and didn’t need any healing either – AS HAVOC. I even died once as the bear by pulling 3 packs… Even if I could get my head around it, my heart isn’t in it anymore. And I know TW isn’t perfect because of funky scaling, but it does downgrade ilvl to a specific benchmark, so it’s not the worst sample either.
The playstyle is literally the same only without two great damage cooldowns that you can line up with each other and a trinket. It’s pathetic that RotS feels like a better class CD than Berserk by a mile now (and that’s after dumping 3-4 points into Berserk to try and make it useful, instead of ONE).
Not at all, show me where what I’ve said is wrong.
Never claimed they didn’t mess up. Just claimed it’s not as bad as people make it out to be.
How is that a lie? Would you like me to go and show the multiple quotes of people complaining that they’re getting one-two shot in 13-14 keys?
What’s considered “succeeding” in this scenario?
You do realize it’s nearly impossible for Blizzard to balance all the specs in the game to the level of expectation that you’re claiming right?
I mean, you’re more than welcome to put in the work and show them how they’re doing it wrong.
Again, they do not balance around m+. They’re balanced around Mythic raiding. And as such, every tank (nearly every DPS) has obtained Cutting Edge. And Guardians are doing well in Mythic raids.
So if we look at “success” as Cutting Edge and completing m20s (seeing as these are the highest rewards in the game), then every spec is succeeding (or definitely will be within the season). As for how many people are doing it…well that’s not quantifiable as skill levels create gaps.
You do make changes mid season. They need to make changes way way way more frequently. They need to full on never let no changes go by for an entire season, go back to classic if you want that nonsense.
these changes suck, but, changes do need to happen and frequently, meaning mid season.
copium incarnate on this post , why even defend the service provider that is screwing the customer ?
almost feel you are either paid 100 g for post like this or you are one of them people that love supporting dictators and are ok with spreading misinformation and backing up propaganda.
you do realize this is not a " SMALL INDIE COMPANY"
They don’t balance around anything, they just throw whatever at the servers and hope something sticks… They stopped caring LONG time ago.
Screwing the customer? Last i checked, your sub pays for access to the servers…they’re up.
What misinformation have I posted, and what propaganda is going around? Do you even know what propaganda is? Or you just trying to sound smart here?
Had a chance to run some low m0 and low m+ on my port pally and port warrior vs guardian (with the durid highest ilvl but not by much).
In terms of just eye balling my own hp bar and from talking to the healers. It feels both my port warrior and port pally hp bar don’t move at all. As in is mostly 90% and over. There are a few times when I did pop my Def CD since I know a big hit is coming or I know I am going in for for big pulls.
Prot warrior feels really good to play. So much mobility and also I feel I can take a hit and just shrug it off. It also feels great to be jumping around grabbing mmobs obs aobs charging at them, AoE stun spell reflect is also fun. Really no complains
Port Pally feels very static. Is more meh for me. I mean it does its job just fine and having a AoE interrupt is nice Is pretty easy to play lot’s of min short CD you get makes you pretty tanky. A bit boring to play and is so so so slow. Got they have to give prot pally more than just the pony. Maybe walking speed boost like warlock have or something. After playing warrior the pally feels slow, lol. But it still takes hit pretty well.
Druid I like how easily it grabs mobs with Moonfire at the start of a pull or when someone accidentally moves too close to a mob, and I can easily Moonfire to grab aggro without losing my position at all. However, I did notice my hp bar dropping more often than the warrior or the pally. Is also slow as well but better than pally coz at least you get to go into cat form and dash around. No AoE interrupts though. The change to berserk so no more trash spam really hurts the fun out of the spec. It is very easy to play with so it fits well with being very beginner friendly. However, once you play a port warrior you do feel there is a lot of issue with spec. However, if all you play was a guardian then you are going to be happy with it.
Overall I would rate from the most fun to least fun
But in terms actually higher content later on
I mean yea all tanks can complete most content but is much easier with a prto warrior or a port pally vs a guardian druid. Kinda of driving to work which takes 40mins vs transit 60mins vs cycle 90min vs walking 120min. You can still get to work by walking but it will be much longer, you get more tired and if the weather is bad you are going to have a terrible time. You can still walk if you want just like why would you if you have a car? Same thing with tanks.
Can we just make Brambles the new defensive rage button? How about a “winter coat” talent to increase HP per stack too, and make mastery actually feel meaningful.
The upcoming changes are balancing and tuning after a rushed rework was pushed, and all the testing feedback ignored.