Cool story Jeopardy contestant!
Ok, but anyway, here is the story. I sign up for a +8 Atal and get accepted. The healer and one of the dps complain immediately that it is a bear tank. Healer says they are discipline and might not be able to heal bear. I say don’t sweat it, it is only a +8 and the affix are easy this week.
Anyway we kill the T-rex boss first, then on the way to the second boss, some of the group butt pull another group. The warrior dies and then leaves the key. With three bosses left, we still manage to finish the instance with 3 min on the timer. The only death after the warrior was the mage dying twice at Yazma (must have slept in spider ichor or something). I instantly brez’ed both times as I had 3 available. I never missed even one wracking pain interrupt.
So pretty good performance from a bear, albeit a low key. And yet I was still struggling to find a group who would even take a bear tank.
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Unfortunately this stigma is the biggest thing holding back guardians even after minor buffs and incoming more minor “buffs” i use that term very loosely. The only way they would be able to push us out of this stigma is to do to us what they did to warriors, overbuff us into viability and then slowly scale us back after people get the idea.
I have had a hard time getting into any +10 or above pug groups and even mythic raid pugs because no one wants to bring a bear even though my gear and experience warrants it.
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Sad isn’t it? It gets to the point where you start doubting yourself. “Maybe I am a strain on healer?” “Maybe I am making the content harder by not being a insert any other tank here” “Should I reroll?”
Then you play and find out you actually know how to play bear pretty well even if you have to find creative ways to obtain the defenses and offenses that are given freely to other tanks.
The honest truth is that stigmas and stereotypes are often based on fact. Probably not as extreme, but it usually has basis in reality. This in my main and i have a tank set that is 416 including the 415 grong polearm and 420 diamond. I tank M+s up to 15 or so. I aslo have a 407 warr and a 403 pally that i tank on as well.
Both plate tanks are considrably more engaging than the druid. The warrior probably takes more damage, but does considerably more on the back side. The pally is the best of both worlds. It does very good damage, and can self sustain much better than the other 2. When im on the pally i feel the most in control of the outcome and feel like i dont even need a healer most of the time.
The pally and warr also bring utility in the form of slows, stuns, buffs, bop, etc that a druid just doesnt have. So if given a preference of tank, why is anyone surprised that druid isnt preferred? That fact that i feel more comfortable on a tank 10+ ilvl lower should speak volumes about the state of the class.
Guardian needs a rework from the ground up.
Druid is in fact lacking behind the other top tier tanks. Its not stigma, its truth. Not saying druids cant do it, but the other tank are just better.
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This is a you thing. Warrior takes the least damage of any tank, by a fair margin.
What does the other tanks have to do with timing low keys though. Or progging mythic at this point, well into the thousands as far as WR goes.
Other tanks being better has nothing to do with bear being capable. That’s the stigma.
Maybe i worded that wrong. I feel like i rely on the healer more on the warr than on druid or pally.
The stigma is that other tanks are better… because they are.
What does that have to do with completing low keys and trivial content?
Warrior requires the least external healing. Including tank self healing already factored in. It is the least, and most, healer-reliant tank.
Some of my best runs have been with a bear as a tank. If they know their stuff, they’re great.
Trivial to you may not be trivial to others. The bottom line regardless of content difficulty is that some tanks are better than others, and player would rather run with the better tanks rather than the sub optimal. My entire point is that the stigma is true.
Can bears do it? Of course, its just not the prime group comp.
I think that is the problem. Bears can do trivial content like sub +15 keys but other tanks do it better so the stigma is that bears suck.
The only real solution here is for bears to go to fotm for half a patch, which means they need a serious buff, not a tiny adjustment here and there. Warriors got it, but they had to wait quite awhile. It was not long ago that warrior tanks had the stigma of druids and everyone only wanted BDK to the point where M+ was being considered for renaming to BDK+
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This stigma is legitimate. It’s not what’s being discussed. Because that, does not warrant this response,
That’s different. Immediately fearing success may be in jeopardy purely from a bear tank, is not a factual stigma. That is different.
I know. Thats why i said it…
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And that’s not what the post was about. Hence why I quoted it. Try reading it repeatedly until you comprehend.
Are you really trying to arguing with me, about the intent of my own post??? Please try to troll harder.
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I didn’t quote. Just. Your. Post.
Jesus Christ mate.
5/6.
Pretty sure the title is guardian druid stigma…
Which is exactly what I’m talking about. The FACT that guardian has a stigma because it is outclassed by other tanks. Thanks for playing tho.
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I hope you are referring to history related to another character because this one shows you’ve ran with exactly 2 Guardian druids for Season 2, while you’ve mosted paired up with BDK and VDH for your keystones.
Tol Dagor +5** 374 ilvl Guardian Fort/Teem
Waycrest Manor +8* 403 ilvl Guardian Fort/Teem/Exp
Knowing how to play your class transcends across spec boundaries, which means the better player your are, the run will go smoother and easier.
Unfortunately, none of this will change player perception.
Some may think that the only way to change the stigma problem is to buff the hell out of Guardian and then nerf it in a later patch once its gained a bit more appeal. I disagree because that just means the FotM chasers jump on the bandwagon for a short period only to jump ship and the ones who are the most impacted are those staying true and playing the spec both at its lows and highs.
What they need to do is to look at specs like Guardian and VDH and allow them to bring something that actually competes on the same level as what the other tanks bring to the table, both for M+ and Mythic Raiding. I realize that’s a hard and unlikely change right now; but it should be at the top of their class design implementations for the next expansion for sure.
Yeah, it was this character. And it doesn’t mean I’ve done a lot of runs with them, but the point is that I can clearly remember a few instances where a druid was the tank, and it was a smooth run. The one most in my mind is the Siege 10 on this character.
From what my core group has experienced, the tanks that have the toughest times are the ones who do no properly spec their azerite or who do not know the dungeons well.
People I group with definitely don’t avoid them if the io score is good.
The same things that make Druid tanks drastically inferior to other tanks at M+20 also make them equally inferior to other tanks at M+10. There isn’t some new mechanic that magically switches on for a +20 key but is absent in lower keys.
It’s just that people overgear lower keys now.
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In the group of players I run M+ with, I BEG to be allowed to tank. And get denied. We have access to Paladin, Warrior, Monk tanks in our group and they would rather NOT run a key than let me tank. Does that give you any idea of how strong the stigma is? Now part of this stigma is that they ran with REALLY BAD Guardian tanks in season 1. But the result is that I can’t get them to let me rumble in pretty close to optimal gear just once to prove I can do it and it really isn’t that bad, if the group will fill in just some of the gaps the Guardian needs help with.
2 Likes