Guardian druid stigma

Classes Druid
21

No. Oh, my God, listen. The stigma that the OP and others are talking about is people doubting guardian can even complete or survive in low-mid level content. For frame of reference, that’s keys 15 and lower, and mythic raid at a world 1k+ level.

What you’re talking about is the stigma that guardian is inferior. That is based in literal fact because it is. With the exception of DH, every other tank does tanking, better than bear. There’s nothing wrong with that idea, because it’s very much true. But when it reaches an extreme, it becomes something different.

Shifting from “Man, bear’s weak, this is going to be harder than it needs to be” into “Man, bear’s literally worthless, we can’t complete this 10 with a bear!” is a significant shift. The two are based in the same idea (Bear is relatively weak) but one is relative (to the other tanks) the other is an absolute. And that other one is false.

Do you understand now.

3 Likes
24

Up your score and you will start getting invited more. it sucks but that’s the way it is. I don’t get declined much for up to 15s and I don’t really have an impressive score.

25

I feel like you have 2 apples in front of you and you are trying to say 1 is an orange…

The OP is stating that with the Stigma against guardian druids you are IMMEDIATLY cut down.

Into

In the communities eyes is the exact same thing when put into M+. If I am concerned about a druid tank in my group making a run harder then in the groups mind we find them worthless. Especially if we are running lower keys!

Like the OP said
Stigma - a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.

1 Like
26

In the eyes of the masses, it’s the same thing. So you’re acknowledging that it’s two separate things, that perception lumps together and assumes the worst.

Really.

27

I can believe this. I heal raids on the shaman and dungeons on shammy, druid, and monk. Warriors take less (unmitigated) damage and are easier to heal right now than paladins or bears. I don’t freak out when a bear tank comes in the group, but I will have to heal him harder and it will be spiky, like a DK. That doesn’t mean they aren’t capable. I’ve had very successful runs with a guardian tank.

Exactly. There are two different things being put forward here: one is the stigma that bear tanks aren’t “as good” as other tanks. The other is behavior indicating a stigma that says “bears can’t do this content,” which is demonstrably untrue and silly.

Mathematically, bears need some reworking and help. In actual gameplay, however, I welcome a bear tank to my pug just like any other tank class if he’s timed a few keys and knows the dungeon. Simple as that.

Warriors are typically easiest to heal. Paladins and DKs are usually spiky but pretty solid (I’ve had some really skilled pallies and DKs who basically didn’t need me, but most are solid with periods of omg). Monks and Druids and DH’s are a mixed bag based on the skill of the driver, but they all three require a lot from me in M+ whether I’m on the shaman or the druid or the Mistweaver.

2 Likes
28

I have healed a few guardian druids in 10+ and have noticed that a lot of them are using the wrong traits. For some reason, people are not running twisted claws and layered mane. I even had one person running 3x gory regen. Yeah his frenzied regens were strong, but his mitigation was not strong at all.

On the other hand, those who run 2x-3x layered mane and twisted claws, with the occasional bonded souls really makes a huge difference.

That being said, the incoming buff will definitely help them stay alive better.

29

I would only stack 1 layered mane though not multiple, 2 or 3 twisted claws is fine combined with wild fleshrending etc. trinkets make a big difference as well as how much leech the guardian has.

1 Like
30

Multiple layered mane isn’t awful for defense, but you give up huge amounts of damage. Even one is more preference than anything.

31

I will acquiesce that more than one layered mane is less desirable. I was more trying to make the point that stacking 3x gory regen in lieu of stacking any layered mane was awful.

32

I will agree with that and having some of the secondary healing and shield traits stacking really help too.

1 Like
33

You can only wear what’s dropped for you. I’ll grant that it’s much more likely you’ll find good traits since they added the second ring, but it’s definitely not a certainty. I’m still missing a couple traits I’d love to have on my healing set. Assuming that a player is bad based only on what traits they’re using seems like flawed reasoning to me.

1 Like
34

There is no combination of azerite that the best option would be triple Gorey.

2 Likes
35

Stigmas exist for a reason, bear druids ARE squishier

I have both a Prot Warrior and a Guardian Druid, and maaaaan does Prot Warrior just feel a lot more sturdy compared to the bear. It plays more responsively too, super smooth rotation with the haste talent.

Guardian Druid takes much more damage in comparison, I’ve even gotten the occasional cheeky "oof, you’re making me work hard :smile: " style comments from PUG healers when running mythics as a bear. Meanwhile, on my Prot Warrior I get comments like “honestly that was so easy to heal, great tank”

As for mitigation, it’s not even a close comparison.

My warrior has a baseline (unbuffed) armor mitigation of like 64%, meanwhile my druid has a baseline (unbuffed) mitigation of like 51%. So this means that it takes my Druid maintaining 1 Ironfur buff just to match my Warrior’s UNBUFFED mitigation. So protection Warrior, without pushing a single active mitigation button (shield block, IP, etc), has the same mitigation as a guardian Druid with 1 Ironfur up :thinking:

3 Likes
36

Bear with one ironfur and 0 traits is more armor than warrior at the same ilvl.

Again, this is exaggeration. Bear with one ironfur has between 4-6% more armor, depending on the ilvl used for comparison. Additionally, it has around 30-50k more hp, and takes some 5-15% more healing.

Your attempt at sensationalizing it sacrifices accuracy.

1 Like
37

Just out of curiosity I checked both my toons just now:

Protection Warrior armor (unbuffed)

~64.4% damage reduction

Guardian Druid armor (unbuffed)

~52.8% damage reduction

Guardian Druid + x1 Ironfur

~65.5% damage reduction

So it’s not really an exaggeration, Prot Warr has “roughly” the same armor mitigation as a Guardian Druid with Ironfur up.

By the way, aren’t you the Warrior fanboy guy? What are you doing in the Druid forums? Did you reroll Druid or something?

I recognize you from the Warr forums :thinking:

I know which one the PUGs like, and that’s Prot Warrior hehe :sweat_smile: I get multiple positive compliments per week from PUG healers, it’s obvious they prefer Prot Warriors :thinking:

4 Likes
38

A 416 warrior has roughly 64% armor, depending on gear.

A 416 bear has roughly 56% without IF, at 1 IF stack ~68%. With TC at 5 stacks and a single LM trait, 1 IF is ~70% armor.

At the same gear level, the bear has ~40k more hp and takes ~8-12% more healing.

You’re giving nothing to go off of besides “I have two characters”

No control variables, no details, pretty piss poor comparison.

I’ve played 5/6 tanks since WoD.

Turns out, you can go to different areas of the forums and not get shot.

Well…obviously, yeah. Prot takes less damage and requires less healing than every other tank by quite a large margin.

39

All 6 tank specs have done over a +20 and bears have almost as much physical mitigation as warriors. FotM is a toxic mindset and I got razzed a lot for tanking prot warrior in NH when we were “Bottom of the barrel.”

40

And there’s still dk, paladin, and monk in between the two, but aside from that, correct.

41

Maybe i am looking at the wrong place but this does not seem correct.

42

I dont get this at all because with how hard you push the lack and or improper statement of a stigma you are stating guardian druids are equivalent to prot warriors.

If anything you are all making it out as if they are fully capable of +20 keys and need 0 attention.