Guardian druid “unpruning”

Classes Druid
34

I was going to tear down your experience with the game, because WarcraftLogs and RaiderIO exist, and that feels like the appropriate response when so completely ad hominem my prior statements. But why, this achieves nothing.

I am happy that you have found some subset of the game to enjoy, because yes, the game right now is all about optimizing our mobile totem character that procs corruption effects. Sure, maybe in the areas you play, Tiger Dash is a great way to manage that type of gameplay.

But what happens when corruption goes away? Tiger Dash may find some slight use in some other small subset of the game in the future. But it isn’t some always useful talent that allows Guardian Druids to optimize their spec, it doesn’t offer synergies with other core parts of our gameplay. I am seeing other tanks get these builds where they have multiple overlapping synergies that optimize a skill to the extreme. Think Thunder Clap for Warriors in BFA or Fiery Brand for Demon Hunters in Shadowlands. These are really interesting design choices that allow a complete gameplay style built around these skills that might otherwise just be a simple part of the rotation or a panic button.

We aren’t seeing much if any of that kind of design for Bear, mostly because the synergies just don’t exist in our kit. Part of this is because we have so many under-utilized talents and talent rows, Tiger Dash being one of them. Right now it looks like Guardian is just going to be a Thrash spammer once again, without much actual gameplay around it. So far it just looks like we are going to get a subset of Legion gameplay back, and that’s pretty damn disappointing.

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35

Awww… Thats cute!
He thought i was talking about endgame experience.
He even spent all that time typing out a response to it!

lmao…

Im talking about experience with dealing/playing with high corruption.

Then ill change the talent?..

Thats an option, you know.
Youre not locked into your talent choices.
Choice being the operative word here.

The fundamental beginnings of these talents trees were to do away with cookie cutter builds and offer choice in game play. Yes, blizzard dropped the ball along the way and were right back to cookie cutter builds again. However, the choice is still there. Even if it some talents dont perform as well as the others, that doesnt make them “worthless” (except lunar beam). Tigers dash has its uses outside corruption builds. Im finding great use for it in my +15 keys that has in no way hindered me by loosing vortex/FC.

36

For Guardian Tiger Dash is the least optimal talent. Guardian’s do not need to leave Bear Form while actively tanking and if they need to move quickly Stampeding Roar is the go too and if the need to move and can get out of form regular dash or a lightfoot potion is just as good as Tiger Dash while keeping Vortex or Wild Charge.

TL:DR Tiger Dash is a weak talent on a row that offers 2 more options that have more practical uses.

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37

Exactly, the point of bringing up talents in a thread about unpruning is that we had a lot of valid, viable and fundamentally better talents for Guardian in previous expansions, but when they decided to homogenize so many of our talents to class-wide ones, it reduced our choice and viability. Here are some of the previous talents we had as Guardian that could easily fill the spot of Tiger Dash, or really any of our under performing talents.

  • Cenarion Ward: A short cooldown response HoT to taking damage on the target. This already exists for resto, and would much better be suited in the spot of Renewal, as it gives us a lot of agency over healing allies. I’d love to have a bit more control over my group’s lives.
  • Displacer Beast: Existed pretty recently in Tiger Dash’s spot and was far more useful as it included a solution to the critical problem of Tiger Dash, a blink. It also didn’t remove another skill from our bar to use, which was great! It still had its own problems, namely the shift to cat occurred with the blink, which would occasionally allow mobs to get a melee attack in the exact moment you were no longer bear. This is actually the exact same functionality as Soulshape upcoming in Shadowlands, and knowing Blizzard, I expect this exact same problem.
  • Faerie Swarm: A single target slow with a armor debuff to the target. Its almost like the Bear kit had a lot of the tools we needed to be strong tanks, but they removed them inexplicably.
  • Force of Nature: AoE taunt mobs that spawn for a short time. Removed and given exclusive to Moonkins. I am seeing a pattern here.
  • Dream of Cenarius: Heals give a damage boost to your next attack, damage spells (specifically the pew pew kind) give a healing bonus to your next heal. Not exactly what’s needed these days, but Frenzied Regen was included in the list of heals, so it turns Frenzied Regen into a modest damage buff. Also would give a reason to Moonkin or Resto for a cast or two with those affinities.

These were all part of our kit in Mists, some extending up until Legion. Any one would be a welcome addition to our kit.

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38

Don’t forget Fae Silence and Intimidating Roar.

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39

Of course they dont.
If youre content like Tewa is of just being meat sack mana sponge, by all means, you do you. For those who actually enjoy the class and wish to look for ways to spice up their gameplay with out of the box thinking and tricks that require thought and skill, they absolutely can leave bear form while tanking, and should!

Threads like like this exist because the vast majority of players either lack the skill or the ingenuity to use their full arsenal because :

  1. the guides/forum sheep told them not to.
  2. they dont know how to use them properly… or understand how they work.

Case in point…

Both comments are objectively false.

  1. “iTs a SpElL wE alReAdY HaVE”

Not even remotely close.
Tiger dash is an initial 200% on a 45 second cd
vs
60% on a 120 second cd.

Due to our lack of slow, and dash’s longer cooldown, it is not an effective, nor reliable way to move as a tank. 60% is worthless (correct use of the term).

Tigers dash on the other hand, sends you careening at mach chicken speeds across the map, and is readily available again for your next pull.

  1. “bUt yOu hAVe rOAr”

Again… 60% vs an initial 200%, and shorter cd.

Tigers dash is self serving while Roar is utility for the group.
If youre using stampeding roar as a means to escape fire and not to expedite your party’s progress throughout the dungeon, you arent using your tool kit correctly and are dead weight.

Light foot is certainly an option if your bank can support it. however, Its 50% slower, has a 1min cd, and youre locking yourself out of using better pots.

My server currently has it listed at 70g.
So, in a 30-40 minute run you’re looking at 2100-2800g per run if youre using it on cooldown. (which I often do with tigers dash).

What separates the men from the boys in regards to who is effectively a better tank is not who takes the least damage. Its placement and crowd control. Just watch any MDI, the tanks spend the majority of their time not taking. Rather, they’re controlling the movement and pathing of mobs through stuns, slows, los and game hacks (like evade/range ports).

In capable hands, Tigers dash is an effective means of crowd/mechanic control.
The fact that youre both viewing it as an “oh crap/kitty go zoom” button is why you fail to see its value. Mainly because you were told to think so by others and never tired for yourself, and lack the knowhow to make it work.

Case in point:

Typhoon exists, you donut.

1 Like
40

Lightfoot Potion is not 50% slower. It is a 150% Speed Increase on a 1 Min CD that also lets me keep Vortex or Wild Charge. Oh and I can use Lightfoot Potion in Bear Form. 5 Star Moss and an Alchemist is greater than Tiger Dash.

Tiger Dash might be fine to run in unrated PVP, a Normal Raid or up to a M+15 but anything more than that and a Tyranical Boss or a Fortified Add is going to splat you n cat form while actively tanking.

Edit - Also how often do you need to use Dash while tanking?

2 Likes
41

If you use it incorrectly, yes.
Men from the boys.

Something also worth pointing out here…

Heres where that “choice” I was talking about comes in.
I know it must come as a shock to you, But its perfectly acceptable to change talents based on what type of content youre running, or weekly affix.
Weird how that works, right?

Dealing in absolutes claiming talent is “worthless” based on 1 area of content is factually incorrect. Each has it place and use. (except for lunar beam)

With last weeks bolster, I used it on cooldown to put distance in between myself and that last add. Due to its shorter cd than vortex, I was able to use it more often and more effectively.

I use it to pull packs and quicly los/evade bug them into exactly where i want them to be instead of waiting for them to run. Spider Ob in Boralus for example, you pull him across the river and he instantly ports. Tigers gets me there faster.
Instead of running like a chump. “lol… i haz roar guys”. please…

42

Real smooth. I really like how you’ve made sweeping generalizations - practically insults, really - about a whole community of players and misrepresented a whole host of problems, simply because many of the members of that community don’t agree with you.

The argument being made by @Tewa and others is not an absolute argument. It’s a summary argument. Saying that, “Tiger Dash is trash” is not meant absolutely, but rather as an overall summation of its relative uselessness by comparison with other talent choices, like WC. Likewise, @Tewa’s complaint is very well-founded then: @Tewa isn’t upset merely because we lost a useful talent, but because it was replaced with a relatively useless one - read: RELATIVELY. Just because you, personally, make use of the talent doesn’t make it good.

The general consensus in the community is that Tiger Dash is not good. Saying that the only reason people agree with that consensus in the community is because they’re effectively terrible players and/or mindless “Sheeple” is just a slap in the face to all the knowledgeable high-end Mythic raiders, Mythic+ monsters, Glads, etc., that make up a part of said community, and agree with the consensus in the community.

My advice to you is this: you need to climb off that high-horse mighty quick before you get knocked off, Tical.

Thanks for your time,

Barespanks

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43

Tical I say this with the utmost respect but I don’t really give a shift what you have to say. I really don’t. You are entitled to your opinion and I don’t have to agree with it, I only have to acknowledge it.

It is fine to disagree with people but your condescending tone and attitude really comes across in combative predisposition and it just turns people off from having a discussion with you.

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44

Its not worth engaging, I tried, it just lit him up more. Just ignore and continue with the construction conversation.

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45

Look… Even if you had some anecdotal evidence of your own that shed some light on your opinions. I would listen.

But all youre doing here is saying…
“This is the best talent”
why?
“because it is”
yeah but why…

Classic monkeys and the ladder scenario.

46

A proper “unprune” would be to restore feral to cat + bear.

47

I have never said Tiger Dash was “worthless” as you quoted me as saying, I said that Tiger Dash can be picked up via a simple Alchemy Potion that allows you to keep 2 other talents that have a higher threshold of use while actively tanking.

Please use Tiger Dash all that you want. No one is telling you not to. I can snap mobs without the use of a speed boost if needed. I don’t need to use Tiger Dash.

3 Likes
48

You asked the question.
Im not responsible for your emotions because you didnt like the answer.

Of course you can.
Theres no argument saying you cant.
Im saying it can be done faster and more offten with Tiger.
(which is the general theme of M+. Speed.)

Can you use a pot? Absolutely.
If you have the profession or bank roll to do so… by all means.
However its not as effective and not usable as often.
Not opinions.
Fact.

You mean when you took a debate about class skills personally because you confused fact with ad honimen and attempted to “tear me down” with your 2+ key and 145 IO over mine?

I got a chuckle out of that.

49

I wouldn’t be against that, both specs feel like they have been missing a major part for a long time. The fluid transition from competitve DPS to functional Tank, or competitive Tank to functional DPS made for interesting encounter design. I miss the days when we saw fights where the number of tanks required changed over the course of the fight and being able to transition between a good tank to a functional dps was a valuable addition. Now it’s just “what’s the stacking taunt mechanic that the two tanks need to swap for”~~~

1 Like
50

I’ve had Tical on ignore for a long time, and that low-level warrior, too. I highly recommend it.

To ignore people:
Click their portrait.
Go to View Activity.
In the top right is a button labeled Normal. Click it to activate a dropdown menu.

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51

Thanks :smiley:

This years most useful information. Will make everyones life far better!

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52

Thats what Tewa does.
Ignores facts and arguments that dont align with his.

That “low lvl warrior” has a better grasp of the druid class than 99% of the people in here, yet hes labeled a troll. Tewa on the other hand, has somehow been chosen as your champion, despite constantly spouting incorrect information, has a clear and dangerous misunderstanding of BASIC class/game mechanics, and he is openly bragging about abandoning the class that he hates so much.

What a joke!

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53

Bear needs some sort of rework imo. Feels super outdated compared to other tank specs. It’s a shame, it’s a really cool concept and I like playing it but there’s a lot that’s wrong with it gameplaywise.

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