Ground Level Threat Ideas

Lore Story Forum
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So if you’re like me you probably really liked the opening chapters of BFA and DF but have been gradually lost when the story shifts it’s focus to gods and monsters.

Everyone has their own posion of course but the reason I fell in love with WoW is because it took this absurd fantasy world and literally brought it down to the ground level. You were no longer directing epic fantasy battles from on high like some god atop Mt.Olympus. You were now Joe Schmo #4322 carving your own story of high adventure through this world.

And while we did eventually graduate to fighting dragon princesses and magma gods it really wasn’t about them. It was still about your adventure through the world.

And I feel WoW got back to that in the aforementioned because for a brief beautiful moment the game returned to adventuring through this strange world and meeting the cultures and dangers that lived within it.

But sooner or later they fall back into bad habbits and the story falls back to being about demi gods in desperate need of therapy.

And I feel this happens because the Devs feel the need to raise the stakes. Afterall even in Vanilla we did go from thwacking pigs to thwacking lichs. But I’d argue power levels are meaningless in Azeroth and threats are only as credible as they’re presented. This is why I feel the Jailor fell flat because despite being billed as the biggest bad to ever frown at adventurers all he did was menace Azeroth in an extremely vague way.

And I think plenty of much more interesting stories could be told with more ground level threats that aren’t a threat to all life on Azeroth or the cosmos. And I figure you and I could toss some out here that we think might make interesting subplots, dungeons or even patch arc villains. Only rule is the threat at hand cannot threaten more than a few regions at most. At worst they’d destroy a city not the planet.

First off I’d suggest evil artwork.

Inspired by Lovecraft’s “Pikman’s Model” and the IRL Black Paintings of Francis Goya I figure we have a story with cursed artwork driving people mad and unleashing the monsters it depicts.

The origins of these artworks could be everything from dangerous artifacts carelessly smuggled out’ve Karazhan. To the Old Gods just deciding to have a laugh by giving a painter the Xalatath of colored pencils.

I’d deliberately keep the origins mysterious with the idea being players would uncover more as the story progresses. It could start with art shows in IF/SM devolving into orgies of violence. And evolves to us fighting the living paint monsters that have started to crawl out’ve their frames.

Eventually this would lead to us jumping into the paintings Mario 64 style.

I think that’d be cool as it’d allow the devs just complete creative freedom with enemy and dungeon design. The art team always reliably kills it so why not let them literally make every frame a painting?

You could have instances inspired by everything from the works of Hiernymous Bosch to MC Escher with similar creative freedom for enemy designs.

But what do ya’ll think? And if you have any smaller tier threats you think would make for a good adventure please feel free to contribute. I’ll be adding my own whenever I think I’ve a cool idea.

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Not just the more down to earth nature of it all, but creating dungeons that are not completely connected to the outside world offers just so much creativity for narrative beyond just art design. You can only do so many things with the Wailing Caverns or Stockades, even Deadmines, until it runs a little dry.

Given our 5 years since end of BFA and the crippling of most military forces in the Horde and Alliance (recall folks one lost almost every engagement, the other was about to call up farmers to fight) and our fun Scourge running rampant issues from Shadowlands - everyone is running a little thin.

So its a great time and place to revisit some of the more minor threats we’d normally had under control and dial them up.

  • Scarlets are a first that come to mind personally - radicals who are, apparently, still able to pose a physical threat to the Forsaken in Lordearon of all places are great for their traditional areas but also their new stronghold in the remote mountains of Alterac.
  • While the Defias seem gutted, I’d like to see some sort of schism happen there with the more grey, red bandana wearing, communal forming, radical organizing, union thugs against the monarchy are having to purge their more criminal elements who joined just for the power. Westfall and Elywnn remain great places for them.
  • Grimtotem expanding in Dustwallow, 1000 Needles, Feralas, and Southern Barrens. Both pushing back any Alliance trying to reassert themselves but also claiming they now watch over territories that are at ends with Thunder Bluff and the tribes associated there on a tribe by tribe basis. Ragetotem in Southern Barrens, Spirithorn in Feralas, Ogres and Mistweavers in Dustwallow, and Stonehoof in 1k Needles. Actually show Thunder Bluff is a confederation of tribes and not a monolith.
  • Druid schism in Desolace, northern Feralas, and Stonetalon. Primarily between restoring all to a heavily forested, dense, and almost tropical, biome and letting life or growth be restored in its own manner. Aiding it grow where it struggles, but not forcing their ideals of what it should be.
  • Gurubashi joining the Horde and having to convince or pacify the smaller tribes along Stranglethorn. Alliance obviously trying to hinder these efforts.
  • Demon issues in Swamp of Sorrows and Blasted Lands. Some Dreadlord or other crafty/strong Demon doing things in the places we expect it/have seen.
  • Deaders are in the Plaguelands and Ghostlands still. Finally the final/major assault into the Plaguewoods and Stratholm.
  • General nation building issues Arathi, Hinterlands, and Twilight Highlands. Could add the Dark Iron in Searing Gorge to this - if not making Blackrock Mountain its own independent zone cause it certainly has the size…

All of these remain a bit open ended when we finish. Sure we succeed, but given how thinned out most official forces are their ability to maintain most of these gains are sporadic or tentative at best. It keeps them open for small revisit quests later, dailies, and other end game/collectors/just for fun content. Think all the old PvP objectives we can revisit - as big/central/obvious as Hellfire towers or small and minor as the Southern Barrens and Twilight Highlands flag + dailies.

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There is a lot of potential with this idea. For some new ground level threats what about schisms among the Dwarf clans as I’m sure there are tensions between them. The House of Nobles is always available for some new intrigue. Something involving a resurgent Alterac could have potential to be a ground level threat to both the Alliance and the Horde. I would also love to see some kind of threat from the Gnolls, Kobalds, Quilboar, and the Murlocs.

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Smaller scale? I am still wondering if the Bloodwake will ever be expanded on.

It could be pretty large scale, but also small scale compared to the interdimensional + cosmic + AU + time travel stuff.

If we ever have a full fledged naval / sea faring type expansion, maybe they could make their presence known as raiders on coastal areas. Or attack ships that travel around. Like a zone wide event could be escorting ships and fighting raiders as they travel from port to port.

We could have Horde and Alliance forces, pirates, vampirates, and the Bloodwake all contesting the waters. Along with what ever lurks under the sea.

I guess that would be sea level rather than ground level.

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Neo-Gorian Empire.

It’s an idea I’ve toyed with recently. Give the Ogres on Azeroth the same level of dignity that was afforded to their WoD counterparts. Have the various clans band together to form a new state in the Feralas/Desolace/Stonetalon region - there’s not much important going on there anyway - and make them a coherent foe. Maybe have them ally with the Centaur tribes in Desolace and deploy them as auxilliary forces.

(My secret ulterior motive is that this would also be the ideal moment to introduce a female ogre model, which is an important step towards playability.)

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I’ve always wanted to return to Kezan for an expansion to find a sprawling metropolis full of industry, crime, corruption, and all manner of inner-city threats. There’s not really any big bad, just some corrupt individuals trying to take over. That kind of mystery and intrigue story is something I’ve always wanted explored in WoW.

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I do think we need more lower level threats that aren’t “dealt with” because they add more color to the game world and break up otherwise monotonous zones and continents, but I’m going to be honest, WoW expansions are always going to escalate over the patch cycles. Even Vanilla had us fighting and killing an elemental lord and an Old God. Warcraft 3 itself and each of it’s campaigns followed this same structure. Smaller local threats before escalating massively. It’s just baked into WoW’s DNA.

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I’ve said for awhile WoW desperately needs a rogue’s gallery. Because if at this point if it’s your enemies that define you then we are some boring mfers.

Now obviously apocalypse tier threats like Arthas or Deathwing kinda need to be sorted out by expansion end.

But their lieutenants can easily escape to fight another day. I’m glad Denathrius and Queen Azshara survived their respective expansions because they were great. Hope they turn up to menace us with their snake and vamp bois whenever we need more enemy variety.

Likewise you could do a whole arc with just Gallywix. Say he’s launched a hostile takeover of the Venture Co. and has successfully constructed an Azerite tipped ICBM he’s now holding the world ransom with. It wouldn’t destroy the world but it would reliably obliterate whatever city he fires it at, so he’d essentially have both the Horde and Alliance at gunpoint.

Requiring us to go thwart him. And you already know his fortress is a tropical island with a volcano lair that has his face carved into it.

And of course we’re going to storm in right before he can launch the missile;

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The original Mongrel Horde idea that was meant to be WoD.

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I still think that would have been a way better idea than WoD. Which remains the most irrelevant chapter in WoW history. Seriously I’ve seen maybe 10% of it’s content (most of which from soloing old raids for mog stuff) and probably won’t ever see more as it’s story never comes up. Even after the Horde got a whole faction of interdimensonal refugees from that world.

Having a third NPC super faction of all the races that didn’t get picked for the Red or Blue dodgeball teams would certainly liven things up and would certainly make sense. Gnolls, quilboar, centaur, harpies and murlocs get completely steamrolled by either side the milisecond they’re even mildly inconvenient.

Could even make the factions and the PCs the bad guys for once. As yeah, sure, those dudes aren’t known for being particularly agreeable but how many times have we exterminated them over ish as minor as supply stealing?

On Centaurs though I’m still miffed we havent seen them do a lot of archery yet. Because while the presentation was iffy I do think the unusual decision to style a Greek mythological creature after the Mongol Empire was pretty nifty. As they did conquer like 20% of the planet basically through archer calvary. So making them literal horsemen makes sense.

Be cool if we could see their famous mass archer calvary rotation formation they did for continuous fire IRL. Combine that with infamous ferocity of gnoll shock troops, quilboar bramble magic and literal murloc frogmen for amphibious attacks or subnautic sabotage and you’d have a serious force to be reckoned with.

And one both teams might actually deserve to lose to for once.

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I mean, the Shikaar clan from the Dragon Isles pride themselves on their marksmanship and hunting skills.

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True but I mean more grand scale;

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Ooh, I love this topic. The everyday local threats are the most interesting to me - they do a lot more to flesh out the setting than cosmic stories seem to have done, and I much prefer seeing names/logos/themes that I recognize in villain groups rather than a new batch of unexplained baddies every few years. (I am really bummed that the Primalists get no backstory. Seriously, there’s so many interesting reasons and excuses they could have, but the deepest they get are vague statements about how they’re totally justified, trust me.)

With that in mind, I think that the game has multiple ground-level enemy organizations that can be added here and there to the story for some villain continuity:

  1. Defias - the bandit classic, with the added benefit that any quest about them can be made about either fighting amoral thugs, or encountering an old-school Stonemason with justifiable anger. I think that most combat quests should be about the former, and that there should be limited player choice in quests about the latter - in the sense that ‘deal with the Defias member’ quest objectives should allow players to pick between helping the NPC, turning them away nonlethally, or fighting them, so that the player can have some level of customization for how their character reacts.
  2. Syndicate - the northern EK equivalent of the Defias, without the moral greyness.
  3. Venture Company - I love the idea of Gallywix taking it over so that he can ham up all sorts of villainous cameos, as the group takes on whatever illegal operations seem profitable in the moment/patch/etc (before they’re foiled by those pesky adventurers and their little dog, too). I’d particularly love for the Venture Company to be the ACME agency of all the other villain groups - continually providing tech and trained operators to all sorts of other villains. I’m pretty sure they were behind the Defias’ shredders and goblin tech in Vanilla, and I loved that kind of hint at villain groups that the player would only encounter in earnest in later zones.
  4. No one expects the Scarlet Crusade! Okay, everyone does, but they’re just such a fun villain organization. They’re unquestionably evil and can be fought with no regrets, but have enough history of starting out in terrible circumstances and spiraling into their extremism that they’re more interesting than the average villain. I’d like to see them as the extremist anti-undead faction, refueled after each setback by new recruits whose anti-undead sentiment drives them away from the more undead-friendly alternatives like the Argents. Maybe emphasize how this Scarlet Crusade is primarily a series of independent cells with their own means and goals, occasionally rallying around a particularly successful member, since their structured leadership has been obliterated so many times in the past.
  5. Cult of the Damned - My focus on them is fueled by unlocking old Scholo recently, where I got to see the old dungeon and read again the horror of what happened to their victims. Their control over Caer Darrow and the freedom they had to do such horrible things under the noses of those who should have stopped them was chilling and the sort of horror content that I want to see more of. I think that a current/resurgent Cult should have that vibe: they weren’t destroyed, they just went underground, and a cell could pop up anywhere. A series of disappearances in a town that the local lord and guard don’t seem to be investigating thoroughly? They’re cult members who secretly captured the victims themselves, and the player has to root them out while knowing that any person they talk to in the town may be a Cult member, too.
  6. Any other secretive/partly-secretive group like the Twilight’s Hammer, Wolf Cult, Burning Blade, etc, can follow a similar pattern to the above if they fit the local story better.
  7. The Bloodsail Buccaneers, or any pirate group - they’re pirates, what more to say? They have the narrative bonus of being able to appear at any zone with a coastline, and don’t need to be tied into a local plot, and they don’t need a lot of setup or explanation. If the zone introduces a nice town to defend, pirates are a great staple threat - and they can flee after the player deals enough damage to them, leaving the option open to use specific named pirates/captains over again, or let the player chase them down over multiple zones so that the final confrontation is that much sweeter.

And, while not villain groups, I have ideas for other ground-level recurring themes for filler quests:

  1. Returning NPCs: I really, really loved seeing the Westfall Brigade in WotLK, seeing all those farmers I remembered from my lowbie days all geared up for war on the new front. Its role could have been filled by a generic Alliance footman camp, but by using old names and NPCs, it gave a stronger feeling of continuity and personal ties within the faction. Nazgrim’s and Taylor’s squads (also started in WotLK, I think?) are similar, providing continuity and familiarity across expansions. They also help characterize the generic Alliance/Horde soldiers, by having a chance that the player will recognize one of them as an NPC they knew from before, providing glimpses of where they came from (previous quests with that NPC) and where they will go if they survive the current expac (future quests with them elsewhere). I think that’s a small but surprisingly valuable emotional tie that can keep the player invested in the game.
  2. Rivals! Again like Nazgrim’s/Taylor’s squads or Alexi and Weldon Barov, who the player encounters as rivals over multiple expansions, conflicting directly or indirectly, who the player can either drive off or wound but rarely actually kill, so that the names become recognizable. Bonus if the rivals also have NPC rivals, again like Nazgrim and Taylor, and extra bonus if each side is not Worfed in their appearances so that there can be genuine respect between them and/or the player. And, of course, the recurrence of rivals can make the occasional team-up story with them even juicier. Extra extra bonus if the player has the choice of treating their rivals politely or insulting them, with minor quest text changes of the rivals’ future interactions depending on that choice.
  3. Local profession quests - very basic idea where the blacksmith/tailor/etc in a zone needs x of the appropriate profession items made, or the local gardener/smith will pay for x of local ingredients delivered. I just like little things integrating professions into each zone, so that players get some quest/gossip/etc text about the materials they gather and the in-universe uses of items they can craft.
  4. Recurring names/organizations: occasionally meeting SI:7 or Shattered Hand agents out in the field so they have a presence outside the ‘introducing the next opponent (after getting foiled by him)’ cutscene, assisting the next in a line of Astalor Bloodsworn’s frustrated students on field assignment, fetching a bauble for Lord So-and-So of the House of Nobles (and/or sabotaging his retrieval at the request of a different noble), collecting local reagents for a Forsaken Apothecary testing a new strain of blight… or medicine to show the player how the organization helps its allies in a way other than melting people, etc, etc. There are so many named organizations that can be used for filler quests - in any location or expac - to keep the organization current and the world feeling like it doesn’t stop when the player moves to a different expac. Much like the recurring characters, recurring organizations add some more flavor to the world and gives more chances for the player’s investment in the setting to pay off more frequently than with main quests.
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What I think would be interesting is a Homecoming expansion where Azeroth is reset to a new and stable status quo like it was in Vanilla.

Then after that we could have a few more expansions where we fight the Last Ones. Who are like the First Ones but actually predate them because they’re from the previous cosmos that was destroyed in Azeroth’s universes big bang. Or whatever. Something completely stupid like that with characters not even in orbit of the world relatable.

Then when that nonsense is over we could revisit that Mongrel Horde idea but with a sort of Legion Of Doom between various super villains like Azshara, Gallywix, Van Cleef, etc.

Everyone presumes it’s Denathrius who’s behind this axis of EVIIIIL but he’s actually not involved. He’s the devil, his buisness is sowing temptation and discord in the mortal world to corrupt and capture souls. But of course shock twist it turns out the real mastermind is of course;

He merely made a Maldraxxi Lich appear as him in SL.

“Did you really think I’d sacrifice myself for that petulant wood elf and monotone moron?”

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Unless you pay him…

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/9/95/1004810305-Image123_2.jpg

ONE MILLION GOLD!

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Love the reference, it gave me a good early morning laugh :blush:

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Bumping for the bloodwake fleet. A raid taking place on a giant floating setpiece of interconnected boats and barges would be sick.

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Some ideas for threats I have?

A resurgence of the Shadow Council, worshipping Chaos/Disorder simply as a force in general with any demon-lord they’re currently serving their ideal pick of who would bring about that the best.

A resurgence of the Twilight’s Hammer, still worshipping the Old Gods with research made to wield all forms of Old God power that they can get their hands on; the power of the Emerald Nightmare, the Sha, G’huun’s rot, etcetera.

A resurgence of Satyrs in Kalimdor using the power of Decay in addition to (or replacing) the powers they traditionally wield. Could have them start corrupting Kalimdor’s wildlife again, twisting bears, stags, and any other woodland creature to their side, in addition to spreading the Curse of the Satyr to more races to replenish their numbers to become a force that both the Kaldorei and the Warsong would have to contend with, perhaps under centralized leadership.

The Cult of the Damned has already been mentioned, but i’d definitely like to see them restored too. One of WoW’s OG cults, a shame the state they and their Scourge allies are in now. Could have them start making new Plague strains and ways to deliver it (the grain’s starting to get a bit old) in addition to recruiting from the shadows and building up their standing forces. Could make Gandling a badass and turn him into a Lich, perhaps have the Darkmaster take full control of the Cult of the Damned and make a play to unify the Scourge under his leadership?

Some other threat ideas I have?

Evil Horde (as a force separate from that of the New Horde, the playable one): Evil Horde has been done to death by Blizzard, but nonetheless an idea I have. Could have it filled with Hellscream and Banshee loyalists, more warmongering Tauren, Ogres, Goblins, etcetera exiled from the New Horde due to their warlike attitude and refusal to play along. This group could start attacking both Alliance and Horde alike, a way to provide Horde bad guys for the Alliance to -finally- go absolutely ham on and provide something to scratch the itch of ‘Horde villain’ Blizzard seems to get every other expansion instead of villainbatting the playable Horde faction.

The Highborne: The Highborne are cool as hell and one of my favorite aspects of Night Elven lore. A way to bring them in as a separate threat could be to establish another faction of Highborne seperate from the Shen’dralar, one attempting to spread it’s influence in Night Elven society and recruit Kaldorei in an attempt to bring back the good old days of the Empire, an Empire in which their people were supreme and held nothing back in warfare, an Empire which dominated all of the known world. This new faction could pose a threat to the Horde due to increasingly brutal attacks by followers of this new group that brought all they had to bear, and a threat to the Alliance: the Night Elves certainly remember the damage the Highborne caste once brought upon the world, they definitely wouldn’t want a group of them attempting to bring back Azsharian philosophies, right?

That’s it off the top of my head. Saw some other ideas that I will also echo; the Defias, Scarlet Crusade, Syndicate, etcetera.

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A pirate base that’s a shifting amalgam of tethered boats could make for a neat Torghast-like procedurally generated adventure.

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Personally I’m upset we never got any high seas battling between the Horde and Alliance. That we partake in at least. In the Horde war campaign an exciting naval battle involving wildhammer gryphon riders that destroys a total of 3 boats happens offscreen while you screw around at the bottom of the sea poking at skeletons.

Huh just struck me even Goblins have a better health and safety record than Oceangate.

But that was BFA for you. I’ll never forget decidedly not getting to take part in a battle over SFK where Bloodfang semi-ferals had been reinforced with Gnomish spidertanks. I had to delegate that no doubt thrilling encounter to Admiral Tattersail while I concerned myself with tasks more critical to the war effort;

Collecting hyena poop.

Kinda seems like the wires got crossed there.

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