That’s happened to me.
We had the horde team choked into their starting cave and had just scorched earth everything south. Balinda was alive as were all the bunkers.
And somehow we suddenly lost. And one alliance player who happened to be in
This is also a rather dumb point.
AB alliance has good players. WSG alliance has good players. AV alliance has rep grinders and alts.
AB horde has good players. WSG horde has good players. AV horde has good players, rep grinders, and alts.
Notice the difference here? Not saying the map doesn’t matter, but it has been stated time and time again that the good alliance players aren’t in AV due to a variety of reasons. 1 of them is the map, but that definitely doesn’t stop them if the HPH is high enough to justify spending 30 minutes to 1 hour slogging through it to try to rank. With instant queues, it flat out isn’t. So the best alliance players don’t join. Nor should they.
Seriously. There are good points out there. Saying garbage like “win rates in other bgs” is not one of them.
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I’ll just repost my own comment from a few days ago about Blizzard changing the map in TBC:
The change I am referring to is moving the horde entrance cave. This gives both factions relatively equal opportunities to reach map objectives, instead of giving one side a head start. It also removed the massive spawn advantage the horde enjoys when recovering IBGY.
When alliance lose SH gy they respawn 10 at a time at SP. When horde loses IBGY they respawn 20 at a time at their tunnel. Not only do horde enjoy double the rate of respawns, but they have to travel less than half the distance to defend IBGY as alliance must travel to defend SH.
As far as the “near 100%” win rate, no the cave change alone doesn’t directly change that. The catastrophic loss rate the alliance is currently experiencing is due to the fact that because of the aforementioned map problems, serious alliance pvp’ers avoid AV. As a consequence the horde are only facing people that are there for rep, meaning they are undergeared, or they are facing levelers/afk bots.
Long story short, the cave entrance isn’t directly responsible for the win rates but it is certainly part of a cause and effect relationship.
I don’t think you understand that AV has slowly devolved into what it is today. So yes, your point is probably correct now, because the vast majority of alliance players have given up. All those good alliance players in ab/wsg were the same good players that were in AV at one point, and guess what? They quit queuing up because the only way they were able to compete was to premade and be in discord, once that was taken away it was back to being almost impossible to win AV.
See this is where you are wrong. They literally said they would quit if Blizzard took away premades. They literally quit just as soon as that change went live. And I don’t blame them. The HPH in AV isn’t worth it when the games take longer. They didn’t all leave right away. But it was within the first couple of weeks. This accounts for the BG slowly going from 40/60 to 20/80 to the trash pile it is today. If you take away the rankers, that leaves you with a drastically smaller skill pool to draw from.
Bring back the rankers, it still isn’t 50/50 because map imbalance is real. But it would be closer to 35/65 or 40/60. It wouldn’t be the hot mess it is currently.
And to be clear, I don’t expect the rankers to come back to the BG unless blizzard does something to entice them. I am just saying that anyone arguing that there isn’t a massive difference in skill between the three BGs is delusional. It isn’t the only reason for the massive disparity, but it is the primary reason right now.
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Recently or earlier on in Classic because the meta has changed a lot over the course of Classic. Because if I wasn’t clear I am talking about the recent meta in which Alliance can’t win AV more than once a month. I’m sure there’s plenty of shenanigans that have happened over the course of Classic and any scenario you could think of could happen.
So where exactly was I wrong because you literally just said exactly what I did, lol.
You are implying it was a gradual shift in meta. It definitely was not. The day that went live, most of the rankers left and AV percentages shifted dramatically.
Troll detected.
Horde have already admitted to having 3 hour Q times. Stop lying to the forums.
My last two posts has been me saying the exact same thing about the good alliance players leaving AV and turning it into what it is today, which is a lot worse than it was before. My point was that even before they left, it was really bad for alliance outside of premades, and that has nothing to do with any skill levels between ally/horde.
Yes. 
See, that’s hard to gauge since most of the good alliance players were in the premades leaving a less skilled bunch to pug from the start. Horde has never been able to create premade groups (outside of maybe the first week’s window where queues were pretty fast), so the talent pool has always been more evenly distributed horde side.
Straight up, there is a difference in skill in that BG and there has been for a very long time. AV pug vs pug, horde has better players in the pug more frequently than alliance does. That’s been true forever. Not because Horde has better players, but because they aren’t all concentrated in the same groups.
Which brings me back to what started this conversation. 50/50 in AB/WSG doesn’t say anything about the skill level in AV. The comparison is trash and using the percentages as a basis for the argument is equally trash because the populations are not the same and have not been the same since about week 2 of AV. Post premade changes simply exacerbated this difference. Then the map hammered the final nail in the coffin.
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Saying the populations aren’t the same doesn’t sit right with me, but even if they aren’t I still think it’s perfectly logical to use the stats from other BGs as an indicator that something is truly wrong with AV itself. Outside of premades and the week 1 race meta, alliance has never even been close to a 50/50 in AV. Yet, so far in the other BGs alliance don’t have that problem. To me, that says something is wrong with AV specifically and not the skill difference between horde/alliance. Unless you specifically look at the players in today’s AV games, which isn’t really a good comparison to the alliance AV players from months back before the mass exodus.
There is something wrong with the BG. But these comparisons make it seem like it is just so heavily weighted in horde’s favor that alliance could never compete even with skilled players involved. That just isn’t the case and never has been. As currently situated with this trash map (and it is a trash map my fellow hordies, don’t kid yourselves), I think the percentages with similar skilled players distributed across 100 games would probably be 40/60. I obviously have nothing backing though.
Honestly, I think the two changes I would prefer (that are easy, and don’t involve wholesale changes like randomizing start locations) are moving the cave back and changing the location where the druids summon Treesus. I have heard he is bugged, so I would want that fixed too.
Sadly, I am not sure that would be enough to even out the games though because even with those changes I suspect the games wouldn’t be fast enough to bring back alliance rankers.
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40/60 is obviously way better than 1/99 but you have to admit by today’s standards in competitive games that would still be unacceptable. Anything worse than 55/45 would immediately be hot fixed and deemed practically unplayable for the losing side. With that said, this is classic wow, we have to deal with what we have and unfortunately that has turned AV into a literal hell alliance side, lol.
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Completely agree. I have never cared for this particular map in any of its iterations because it isn’t inherently fair (or at least close). The aspect that I like (large team fights) isn’t present on any of the other maps nor is the strategy required to win those maps the same. I just honestly wish they had done a better job with this map from the get go.
I like the concept. The execution has always been lacking. It is even worse now that people are forced into a rat race for honor and there are a boatload more participating in that rat race than there were in vanilla.
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The good players are not in AV because of the map and therefore the BG as a whole is not conducive to higher HPH.
The two things can be related.
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Happened near the tail end of my rep grind so I wanna say about 2 months ago
You wanna know how to fix AV? Just have the alliance stop queuing. Simple. Once the Horde have 12-15 hour queues Blizz will do something about it, just watch.
I haven’t seen this either and I’ve been in many games. However, the ability to harass the base, take bunkers, kill LTs, interfere with quests and turn-ins, and take the GY - even for a little bit - is quite disruptive and defeats a lot of the defensive attributes of the bridge.
Overall, for many reasons, the bridge fails to be an effective choke point and really isn’t a large factor in many battles.