Goodbye, You've Lost Me:

Community General Discussion
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And, unlike some people, I’ll tell you why.

Classes are just broken. Period. Instead of making them fun to play or appealing to a fantasy, just look at the patch notes. At how many percentages had to change on just enhancement shaman, without giving them the rework they were promised.

Classes have gone from having hard counters to having no counters. Not all classes are created equal. The fact that PVE and PVP are combined is just atrocious in total. Because of all the gap-closers, melee fighters have, virtually, one hundred percent uptime in PVE and PVP. I might be an old-fashioned mage here, but I remember when, specifically, certain classes hard countered others. Class fantasy is about having a class, being that class, with all the DRAWBACKS and BENEFITS that each one provides - not all of them being mechanically or numerically equal.

Ranged classes rely on ranged attacks and deal their damage from afar. Melee classes rely on melee attacks and deal their damage up-close. From a PVP perspective, this should be obvious. The melee should hit harder up close and make the ranged regret ever getting close. Ranged used to be able to keep melee at bay so they could do damage and receive it when the melee caught up.

Forget that - 100% uptime. Eight freezes? Casually break one, have a break out for every individual one after where all the CDs line up - on top of numerous interrupts. Forget that - concussive shot? Traps? Slows? Those are a joke for any warrior or DK worth their salt.

Heroic Raiding:
(Had a link to a simcraft, couldn’t post it)

Looking at current sims, melee outclasses range for a good chunk, except for warrior, and so forth. Now, that is in the equivalent of a Patchwerk fight. Add in movement and mages, warlocks, and such drop drastically, due to having to move to stop their casting, positioning, and so forth. Taking mechanics into account, melee keep their damage on the run, but casters lose their’s, when doing less in a vast number of specs.

Now, translating this to PVP - 100% uptime, more damage, constant interrupts. Self-healing certain classes don’t have. Superior mobility, superior damage, and superior healing. I can’t say I enjoy that.

In classic? A frost mage was one of the scariest things for a melee class (apart from a rogue who could jump out and surprise one - looking at you, surprise one-shots). In one on one, other casters were their bane, for the most part. Classes had definable strengths and weaknesses. Not anymore.

Now that we’ve covered classes, my next post will add onto why I’m going.
The next post will be on PVE content, specifically, rather than anything related to PVP.

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Reserved for PVE. Typing now.

PVE Content:

Raiding:
Sorry to say it, but too many mechanics that determine if a raid lives or dies.
People are like herding cats. In Vanilla, bosses didn’t have huge mechanics that often relied on everyone having split-second awareness. I’m also, thoroughly, convinced this might be one reason we’ve been pruned to all hell, lost our utility, and so forth. Less buttons to press, more mechanics. Fair trade off, right? Wrong.

Let’s say I’m a in a group of 25 people - 2 tanks, 6 healers, and 17 DPS. That’s 25 people, for redundancy. Old raids had mechanics where the two tanks were focusing on their mechanics, the healers had to purge and do their own thing, and the 17 DPS just did their thing. Current raiding, as is, has all three groups doing what they’re supposed to and because of Billy Bob Number Five (I’ve been him) the boss has now turned his main attack to our grouping point before we’ve moved or the raid leader has called it out. So, now that ultra-wipe mechanic just nailed an entire raid (the beam on Mythrax being a perfect example in his second phase in heroic).

Having the entire raid’s survivability relying on, at chance, a single person - who might just be Billy Bob Number 5, well, I can say it is challenging. It’s my personal belief that if Billy Bob Number 5 is an idiot, he should be the one to die, not 24 other people doing what they’re supposed to.

Mythic +:
Not a fan, I don’t care, look at my low score. I actually sort of enjoy Mythic +, come at me, but there are some things that should not be a thing. Such as Quake. What’s that doing to melee DPS again? How is that even affecting them? Oh, right, us casters, healers, etc. are being interrupted and losing out on damage with things that have 30% increased health and/or damage and that’s wrecking our tank. Got it.

Furthermore, the stealth nerf to where we can’t delete keys. It’s not our fault you have some poorly designed dungeons that nobody wants to do. Making us unable to delete our keys for a week makes us not want to do any Mythic + period. Why am I helping someone advance their key, why can’t I advance my own? Oh, right, because that Shrine of Expletive Storms has like 15 extra patrols, 30% extra damage, and, in a group with three mythic raiders and two heroic raiders we had over 60 deaths, despite coordinating in voice and pulling around 15-20k DPS individually - even with Quake. Yes, that’s really fun and engaging content (it isn’t).

Island Expeditions:
You guys fixed those - good on you. They’re somewhat tolerable now, but they’re still boring. If you want some advice I might have on them, it would be some things that might drop (even as consolation or doing X numbers with no reward) that can help in dungeons, raids, or even Mythic +s (things that might drop an additional mechanic like Quake or something). Congrats, I’ve now made these valuable to raiders and people doing mythic.

Professions:
Bought a WoWtoken, instantly maxed those, lol. After a few weeks of WQs, I have three ranks and I’m making multiple. You’ve made them, effectively gold sinks with no real reward (at least Alchemy). I know you’ve added things to them to make Sanguicells something useful, but that doesn’t help the fact that everything’s available at the trainer, doesn’t require any kind of grind (got Cauldron rank 3 in LFR lol), special vendor to find, etc. to get. Every alchemist is just the same as any other. You don’t know who worked for what they have versus buying it. Effort vs reward - should still apply here.

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Literally everyone who makes a quit thread “tells us why” EVERYONE.

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They don’t often give examples or go in-depth. They usually just say, “These things are bad,” with no explication.

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I just don’t see why folks think anyone cares as to why they are leaving. In all honesty since this last exodus, the in game community has gotten better, so much so I can overlook a lot of things that have issues now, but will more than likely be worked out eventually.

I think 90% of this hair pulling, is just the perpetual outrage mob doing what it usually dose.

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Perhaps, the OP means his rational well-written post, as opposed to ‘‘U SUC’’ and the infantile variants therefrom.

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OP; well written and well tought out, as I posted above. Sad to see such insight and intelligence in a farewell post.

You will be missed.

edit hold out hopes for Classic: many of us are doing so.

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For someone who apparently doesn’t care, you went out of your way to reply with this didn’t you? Lmao

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Ah, yes, a great example of a post where it does not matter if the OP outlines why they quit and leaves feedback. The forum community just tears it to shreds anyway because they don’t like quitting posts period.

It’d be nice if people simply pointed out why they disagree (if they even do) instead of just being upset about there being a quitting post.

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Nah, there are definitely a ton of posts where the poster gives their 2 cents as to why the game sucks now. It’s kind of pointless to make a goodbye post otherwise.

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I may be a simple, rose tinted goggle Void Elf here, but I’m fairly sure that in most, if not all raiding situations, melee almost always outdps the ranged on patchwerk fights.

There are also fights that have heavy raid movement that hurts casters, but there are also fights that have heavy boss movement that can hurt melee.

I don’t know much about no Uldir, 'cause there’s zero incentive for me to do anything higher than lfr for my mog farming needs, but I don’t think there’s too many fights that lean one way or another in favor of ranged or melee.

Now when you come to PvP, talk. Yeah. I can’t outkite a warrior anymore, and maybe that’s skill, or maybe it’s because PvP isn’t balanced around 1v1 but arenas now. I’m an absolute garbo pvper though, so that’s just an observation on my part.

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Just giving my opinion bro…I mean we still are allowed to do that right?

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Added the PVE section.

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I still stand by my initial post…however you are spot on about the PVE aspects.

I just think we have been here before it’s cyclical with Blizzard.

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Obviously I care about the game, I’ve played it since Middle School and I’m currently out of college, being an adult and things (if you think this is my only account, you’re sorely mistaken).

There just comes a point where what you enjoy becomes something you can’t anymore. It becomes completely unrecognizable for no other reason than: “How can we milk time out of these people or money to circumvent the time?”

As for Illayia, I said that was supposed to be a thing. I may have worded it badly, but it makes sense. Because melee have to get there to do damage. It’s understandable if a class has less mobility, it’s harder to get there, and they can’t/won’t be able to stay on that target long.

As for you, Strad. Usually unsubbing said to come to the forums with it. So, I don’t really think anyone cares, no. But I was told to give my feedback at one point, so I’m giving my feedback.

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Yes, people are like herding cats. Also, did you forget that there were these things called enrage timers despite there being billions of utilities and abilities for every class? Say what you will, but dumbing down classes to two or three button presses with a proc mixed between actually helped blizzard design raid encounters that are more than a bare-bones “Don’t stack of living bomb!”

Bosses had one mechanic in 40 main raiding, and despite all of the buttons you can press in these old raids, you were still down to hitting frostbolt only on Rag and spreading apart while hoping the raid didn’t mess up on the one mechanic that was warned about over good ol’ ventrilo.

The only constant now is that people are still like herding cats, but now, instead of one whole mechanic, they have to deal with two.

Raiding has always been like this, there’s always been one person that did not know the single mechanic, and wiped the whole raid because of it. You are still using one spell per fight for the most part, and you are still zoning out because the fight is boring.

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Which community are you referring to, the forum community or the in game one? And in what ways has it improved?

I’m mostly asking for clarification on what you mean but I don’t really think the overall community ever changes.

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Been to Heroic G’huun?

You have people throwing balls, people having to dodge balls, while people are throwing balls, dodging balls, and so forth, you have one person who gets stunned and rooted in the path of the balls that are being dodged and, if you move in to help him like you’re supposed to, he can be hit by a ball that can’t be dodged and proceeds to hit everyone else with his balls that hit the balls on the entire raid, and blow up the whole group.

Fun and engaging. Especially if the person in question is a tank or healer and it’s just ‘bad luck’. Luck should not be a mechanic.

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For the most part, if they had just stuck with MoP class design instead of breaking things in WoD and overhauling it in Legion, the game would be in a much better place.

That being said, BFA fury warrior and survival hunter are legitimately good specs. Two out of 32, but still.

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Frost is fantastic in PVE, doing better in it than I did in Arcane or Fire (which I’ve played the latter since Vanilla).

Oh… oh wait. The spec that’s crit reliant and I’m critting most of the time with it (more than 33%) isn’t doing as much damage as a spec that gives me 100% crit in Ulduar when my enchant procs despite needing less of a number? :^) :crazy_face:

It’s almost like there’s a problem there.

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