I’ve been searching around on the net trying to find out more lore about Goblin shamans and I’m just not finding any. Does blizz really not have any established lore for this?
It’s touched on lightly in some Cataclysm era lore. The implication is that Goblin Shaman interpret their relationship with the Elements as transactional and just another business relationship. And the elementals just go with, because it works.
It makes sense on Azeroth, since the Elements depend on the guidance of Shaman due to the planet’s lack of Spirit, and they often defer to the wisdom of the Shaman. But I wonder if that kind of relationship would fly on Draenor? The Furies run a tighter operation there and demand respect.
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There isn’t any, aside from
“lol goblins are good at wheelin’ and dealin’, that translates to speaking to spirits or something, who cares, let’s GET THOSE GOBLIN SHAMANS”
Like goblins are the only race on the planet capable of coming up with contractual obligations and terms.
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It’s admittedly kind of weird, since the main “example” we get in-lore of how goblin shamanism works is Initiate Goldmine. Except his elemental “associate” Magmatooth comes across like a summoned elemental along the lines of Ragnaros’ minions rather than a regular elemental spirit.
Just the fact he has a unique name and antagonistic personality, while shamans’ summoned elementals usually don’t, makes Magmatooth seem like a bound (or in this case “hired”) elemental from the Firelands rather than a normal manifestation of the “Spirit of Fire.” Especially since when he appears a second time after their contract is broken, he’s working with the Twilight’s Hammer.
Whether it’s intentional or not, that creates an impression that goblin shamans (or at least some of them) might be making their deals with rogue denizens of the Elemental Plane rather than the agglomerated “elemental spirits” with which the other races’ shamans usually commune, and who are usually pretty similar to the Furies of Draenor in behavior unless something goes very wrong with them.
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I’d love it if Blizzard elaborated on Goblin shaman lore. There are many other race/class combos that could use elaboration too!
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More like they’re the only race on Azeroth who would be ridiculous enough to enter into formal contractual arrangements with Elementals and Spirits. Its not that other Races can’t. In fact, I would wager many Vulpera Shaman can produce similar relationships. Same with many Dark Iron Dwarves. Its just that culturally Gobs are more prone to it. The Shaman mechanically as a class is more about making and maintaining relationships with these inner plane denizens after all. No one said there were restrictions on the types of relationships made or maintained. Business Partners are a type of relationship.
These beings aren’t perfect demigods wanting for naught. They have desires, needs, and flaws that can be used for and against them in these sorts of dealings. Gobs just go that route over the spiritual.
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I’d just assumed sight unseen that the Goblins were going to do the Belf Paladin thing. Like at first they were using machines to enslave the elements but then the Kezani rediscover some Shamanistic traditions of their own from the way back times and do it properly moving forward.
But no they just uh, bargain with the elements. I’ve no idea what a literal rock would get out of a business transaction but something I guess.
Makes me wonder why Thrall was so bummed the elements weren’t helping him for a bit there. Like just go find another service provider who are indifferent about orc duel etiquette and you’re golden.
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The real noodle cooker is why Goblin Shaman aren’t all Dark Shaman. The Goblins represent the darkest, most corrupt, and exploitative aspects of a capitalistic market. Through the lens of business, a Goblin becoming a Dark Shaman is just the realization that through Decay, they can completely eliminate all of their operating costs. Maximizing profits by just enslaving your labor.
To use Spirit is to willingly make their business less profitable than it could be. And that doesn’t sound like a Goblin.
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It essentially comes down to magic in lore not being as rigid as we see in game, as well as, in the case of Shaman, there being a marked disconnect between how they work in lore versus what they do in gameplay.
A lot of magic is just using different methods to get the same thing, and that extends to Shaman. There’s also the factor that elementals aren’t a monolith, and elemental spirits act differently in different locales, but whenever a Shaman is interacting with a new spirit or group of spirits, they’re essentially debating and being diplomats.
And some Goblins are very good at negotiating.
Some, like Thrall, or the Shipwright in the Kul Tiran allied race quests, bypass this by having a natural affinity and charisma with the elements that’s sort of like the magical entity version of that one person your cat seems to love for no apparent reason.
Well, something to keep in mind is that forcing the elements into obedience with Decay or the Void doesn’t produce the same manifest results as asking for their consent. It often creates warped, tortured and poisonous reflections of normal shamanism, which may not grant the particular results a goblin shaman’s after.
Eliminating operating costs isn’t necessarily worthwhile if it results in not actually getting the desired product.
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This is part of it. It’s also strongly implied that the goblins’ primitive ancestors practiced a rudimentary form of shamanism (as evidenced by the pygmies, who they’re related to). So that was probably passed down and refined into the current form of smoky backroom shamanism.
I should also note that even back in Classic, there were goblin NPC’s referred to as “geologists” and such who used shaman spells.
It’s really an underrated race-class combo. Shame we don’t see more of them.
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The reason why Magmatooth acts the way he does is because he felt insulted that Goldmine had summoned him only to kill him. He makes that clear when you encounter him again in twilight highlands.
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Tbh I’d like to see more races that go against the stereotype nature & are more accepted by the venerated spirits & beings out of the ordinary or presumed scope for their kind.
- Like it’d be cool to see a Night Elf who found titan technology fascinated and surpassed goblin & gnome tech alike, and was fond of technology.
- Or an Orc living in the forest, who a small group of Night Elves keep secret due to a blood oath for him/her saving their lives; who is also a secret student of Cenarius & druidism after having an ancient duty within their spirit sated by Aggramar …
- A Blood Elf who was lost during the invasion of the Amani as a child, who was then found & raised by Loa? Adapting to the Zandali & Loa customs but not the Amani society?
- Or a Gurabashi Troll who’s gentlemanlike and speaks with utmost muster & grammar (Shocking), raised by curious humans.
Perhaps such twists could also be played upon with Goblin shaman, who truly care about the wellbeing of the spirits and ordering balance among the elements.
Sure I get sticking to the theme of things, but even in reality we see the ‘odd ones out’ who stand out in societies for their indifference whether great, terrible or legendary - or in some cases, stand out in a simplistic curious way yet different nonetheless.
You gotta make your own lore for this. And its pretty easy. Your a goblin, your an individual. You like the earth and like to use it to fight.
So Elise Starseeker, well excluding the whole ‘builds tech better than goblins & gnomes’ she basically fits what you want for a Night Elf.
The orc followers of Goldrinn / Lo’Gosh you see in Hyjal could hit this bill.
Yes!! But I’d like if they could make them more of a noticeable character. Especially Night Elves who are NOT Tyrande / Malfurion and aren’t just built up to be made evil & dispose of later.
I like established lore characters who are a intriguing core character of their respective races. (Although we have a few, there could certainly be a lot more)
Hmm, mildly; but not in the way it could be. The reason why Orcs are tentative with their harmony towards nature / fixated with war-like affix is because they’re descendants of titanforged too (Via Aggramar’s ordering of the world), of which their purpose was to war against the invasive intelligent plantlife of Draenor. The only being descented from those titanforged who’d I’d say is more in balance with nature than their kin would be Rexxar, though BFA left a somewhat sour taste in our mouths with him …
Having an aritfact, titan or being sate that desire & bring balance to them to unlock their potential would be a cool storyline I recon. Somewhat like how the Worgen sated their fury with the Scythe of Elune - which they learned could be done with others not even bound to Scythe (For instance, Varian Wryrnn was able to find an inner peace that he had struggled with for years since the re-merging of himselves).
Goblins represent many facets of a Capatilist market, including the exploitative ones. However, Dark Shamanism normally requires outright enslaving the Elementals through sufficient force. Which does result in some serious power, but comes with a lot more risk and instability. Generally, I would wager that it all boils down to cost-benefit of each method. But it should also be noted that outside of the Zandalari on Kezan (who were enslaved out of pure spite, not because it was cost-effective) … its very rare for Goblins to practice outright slavery (due to their own history as a slave race). So culturally that may simply expand into how Shamans and Warlocks interact with their “Business Partners”.
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Through collaboration with my previous fire elemental partner, Inflammeron, we were able to develop an application of flame shock that burned 10% hotter for 10% longer and cost 10% less mana. This achievement recently secured him a minor lordship under the new Firelands regime, and I have been contacted by no fewer than a dozen ambitious fire elementals who want to apply for his vacancy. Elementals partner with goblins because we deliver RESULTS!
All roleplaying aside, I like to imagine my goblin having more than just a business contract, but a real mutually-beneficial partnership with my summoned elementals. They provide me with increased raw elemental power, and I provide them with the laboratory workspace and technology to hone their spells for a chance at advancing up the ranks of their respective planes. I would definitely like to see goblin shamanism expanded upon in game, but currently there just isn’t a whole lot of lore in that regard, so you can make up whatever suits your character.
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I hate all of your ideas.
This one is the worst.
That’s a nightmare. But sadly very fitting to the WoW story writers. Flashback to official Gnome X Goblin story. Shudders
That would seem rather unusual for Goblins. Perhaps not impossible, but that’s more of a side note.
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The blood elf part wouldnt happen because the Trolls hate elves and are ruthless and wouldnt think twice about killing a baby and eating them lol.
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