It’s kind of a problem no? Insane frequency of a pretty long cc immunity frame (glide extending) + damage reduction.
Certainly not a meta defining issue or anything but still seems insanely imbalanced with how their talents currently are.
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With no spammable cc like other casters, or roots, etc. it’s always gonna just be something like this. Either they can lock you down or they’re slippery.
It does get annoying though watching them dance around, I get it.
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Yeah tbh them being immune to cc for 80% of the game annoys me more than the disgusting one shots
If anything that’s what needs to be nerfed rather than the damage
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maybe if they were given a real CC in return I would say it would be fair to nerf them in this way, but honestly without that they are kind of pathetic in any real arena format. they don’t even have an MS effect on top of that. Devourer is i think the only “caster” that has no real CC like Fear, Poly, Hex, MC, Sleep, Cyclone.
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They’re pretty comparable to shaman in that they have an aoe ground targeted fear, single target incap, and aoe stun; very similar to cap/hex.
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cap totem is a much shorter cd than misery, hex is a much shorter cd and lasts longer than prison, chaos is a better stun then lasso sure. But I wouldn’t say that’s very comparable, shamans can take hex as a 15 sec cd, which is very close to a traditional spammable cc like fear/poly/cyclone. Yeah they are the closest thing to not having one like devourer, but I wouldn’t call them all that similar
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Ye but misery isnt killable
Also requires a cast and is dispellable tho
AOE vs st, not channeled,but also dispelable
This is where we disagree. Hex isn’t really comparable to poly/fear/clone IMO. It’s a casted CC, sure, but not being spamable is a huge difference.
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Isn’t imprison dispellable if you don’t take the clone talent?
idr, could be physical like monk incap tho
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I don’t see Devourer being viable if this wasn’t the case though
^ this
when the full caster spec is played you don’t even have access to spam glimpse, but then you just feel like a damage bot because you have no real CC (because you literally use talents for collapsing star instead)
the melee hybrid spec is definitely not the intended way for this spec to be played, but sadly is how it is for PvP
if they gave a choice node to Incap to have a castable incap that can be spammed (basically a polymorph) then people would play caster, have only 1 glimpse to use at most (or 0) and it would feel like an actual spellcaster, you could peel teammates, fake interrupts etc - essentially a shorter range destro lock
Sure it’s not spammable, it has/can have a 15 second cooldown. 15 is much closer to 0 then 45 is. Thus, it is much closer to fear/poly then anything devourer has.
It also lasts twice as long as imprison. That’s another thing that brings Hex more in line with fear/poly is the duration. Hex is much closer to fear and poly then it is to something like imprison.
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Another thing not being mentioned is that Hex is the only CC in the game that allows the player to retain control over their character which is a huge downside to hex on top of the fact it is a curse dispel. It breaks quickly so people just run into melee and get hit with aoe to break it. It really isn’t comparable to poly/fear because those are magic effects, meaning they can’t be dispelled by dps aside from dh with reverse and a dk pre-amsing the healer (which works against hex too) whereas with Hex you cant really hex healer if there is a curse dispel in the lobby. And they don’t allow you to retain control over your character. It isn’t comparable to clone in the slightest that is a better CC in every way imaginable.
edit: the reality though is that shaman and dh both have pretty awful cc, more so an issue for enhance than ele since casting a 1.5s cc as a melee is usually rough. It doesn’t even really need to be compared they are both just bad at CC. Entirely depends on if utility/survivability/mobility makes up for that enough.
glimpse has always been extremely annoying when dh is good.
also glimpse removing disarm like hello?
Glimpse PvP talent was created before devo existed and the extra glimpse talents were added by a dev strictly concerned with PvE. I guarantee nobody stopped and asked “uh will these glimpse resets be ok in PvP with that glimpse talent?”. They likely didn’t even know it existed. It’s a broken interaction that was never intended but exists because nobody is paying attention nor do they care. If devo wins AWC and the casters go on and on about how they can’t be cc’d and then Venruki makes his next stream all about playing Devo and how busted glimpse is and getting his stream riled up then maybe possibly it will get nerfed.
its a good comparison but a big thing about dev is the almost melee range it has.
I also think shaman as a hybrid class has more utility\group utility than a dev dh.
If dev DH had the amount of team utility that shaman had i think it would be kinda neat, but its a bit lacking likely by design because its a pure dps class rather than a hybrid class. I think dev should have either a spammable cc or anti heal, outside of that its basically going to live or die from its one shot OP s tier damage.
Why we hating on a defensive ability that actually requires a little bit of forethought to use lol?
Like every defensive CD should be proactive instead of reactive imo.
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I’m not buying that those downsides amount being equal/worse with dh cc. And I’m not saying hex is equal with clone or poly/fear, my point is it is simply better then dh cc, and that dh is lacking any form of real competitive cc as a caster and compared to other casters. I’m not sure why the argument ever became “hex is not as good as poly or fear”. Because that was never really the point. Even if you wanted to say “hex is worse than imprison” which it isn’t, that still doesnt have all that much to do with what the original point was.
Because the devourer one is so frequent you just press on CD with absolutely zero thought.
Havoc at least has to attempt to anticipate something.
If you are pressing it on CD with zero thought its not doing what its supposed to.
The only time you can do it frequently is after every void blade or hunt since it resets the CD.
Again this really feels like a non issue
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Yeah I mean I dont disagree that devourer lacks CC, I guess I just don’t really understand what the comparison to shaman is about. Shaman also has terrible CC, but its utility is better than devourer. It does have more frequent CC than devourer as well for sure at least as Ele.
I guess what I’m trying to say is they are just designing some specs to be damage bots. Idk if its on purpose or what but theres now quite a few that just dont offer enough post prune outside of damage. Enh losing lasso (essentially), can’t really get to frost shock anymore, mid mobility, lost totemic recall (very important), lost thunderstorm (important), has no MS, hex is a casted cc spell which is bad for melee+curse and cap is counterable in multiple ways+neither of these are instant CCs so enh has no instant cc as a melee dps. Devourer has no MS, horrible CC overall, has great mobility and good personal survivability, only has darkness and reverse (requires honor talent for reverse so sometimes hard to take) to offer the team utility wise. WW monk has very little utility, does have MS/disarm and decent instant CC, good mobility but doesn’t offer enough outside of damage since it brings very little for the team overall.
So idk what their plan is but yeah its just how some specs are now. Mostly due to uneven pruning where some classes just kept a lot of CC/utility/survivability/mobility, some even gained, while others lost. It seems like Devourer was made with the prune in mind, as if this is the kind of limited toolset they’d want classes to have overall.