That is their problem honestly though. Want better gear, do the content. Other aspects of the game are the same thing.
It’s about leveling your character and making him more powerful by doing content. If you want to gate yourself behind only one type of content then that is you. Isn’t the devs fault.
Imagine taking from the cookie jar of life!
That’s PVE, not PVP. The two are inherently different. The difference would be like if you join into a 5 man normal dungeon and oops! Turns out it’s a M+15. That’s why gear shouldn’t be important to PVP. Or if it has to be, make conquest gear 10ilvls ahead of honor gear. Gear shouldn’t be what separates a veteran from a new player, a good from a bad. That should be how you manage cooldowns and your knowledge of what every class does.
Because the issue isn’t even just people don’t want to do rated. People can’t even get to the point to do rated without putting a serious amount of work in. You’re frontloading all the chores onto people at the start and it’s boring as hell. The game should make you feel want to keep playing over and over, not like you have to.
Gearing is fun when everyone else is gearing. God forbid you ever decide to stop playing the game or want to play another class.
The other day in an AV I got hit by a 45k ancient aftershock crit by some guy who had 70k hp. I had 39k hp. There’s no counterplay to that.
This has been done and it was horrible.
Next.
I do however have a fix.
1 Conquest set.
1 honor set.
Pretty sure I replied to this already.
But. Ya know.
Point of a MMORPG is your characters journey. Getting gear and getting more powerful. Doing harder content gets you better gear.
The whole point is to progress. If you only want to play randoms all day everyday then do it. But you should be stuck with the rewards. People should not complain people have better gear and do more damage because someone is doing other content that rewards better gear. That is the players choice.
Players need to get out of their comfort zone if they want better gear. People dislike certain game play like arena because it isn’t what they are use to in BGs we’re they can hide in the back for example.
It isn’t hard to get rating. You don’t need to grind out a full honor set to start pushing rating. That is the players choice.
Even before in WOD you had people complaining from both ends of the ladder about how gear worked.
You had gated gear in BC and WotLK and people barley complained back then. I said it in a different thread I will take either doesn’t bug me how they do the gearing.
There is a quick story I can give you even though to me I had a different opinion when it was posted.
There was a multi gladiator rogue fighting a death night in WOD. They were at the dark moon fair in the arena. The death knight when you look at his armory you could tell it was a very casual PVP player. He had zero achievements but just did battlegrounds. This is where I was in different because one of the best players I knew never did rated content and played warrior so well. But the Multi gladiator couldn’t kill him. It was posted on YouTube and shared all over the forums.
I mean it is obvious one person is highly more skilled. But majority of people did agree that should not of been able to happen it was bad mechanics because of class imbalance maybe.
Maybe the problem this xpac is damage is out of control. Like MoP healing was out of control. I actual enjoy the pvp progression. To me it’s more fun they sitting ask in ashram for a week to get the best gear by doing nothing. People need to stop looking for handouts and try and progress honestly. It’s more fun.
This game is only as much as a grind as you make it. If you focus on one form of content, that is on the player.
Not everyone likes dailies, rep grind, dungeons, raids, randoms, arena, rated BGs, Torg and so on. You can deck your player out pretty good in a week now minus legendary till 9.1.5.
Outmoded thinking like this is part of why WoW is dying, I think. Nobody cares about the classic MMO experience anymore. After the glitz of Classic wore off, most people realized it was actually just a pretty bad game and it died with TBC. And honestly this is just an excuse people use so they can beat up on people who have less gear. There’s many ways you can view a ‘journey’ in an MMO, most of them better than doing them in such antiquated ways.
Again, the harder content when it comes to PVP should not be because they have more gear than you, it should be because they have a greater understanding than you and better reaction time than you. Those exist now, but that’s on top of them pulling ahead gear wise and shutting out anyone on lower levels.
The problem at current is that there is no ‘easy’ content to ease your character into. Because, as I said before, it’s like if you’re starting with 5 man normals to get some gear and it turns out the bosses are all scaled to M+15.
It’s not fun to fight people you have no chance of winning against because they just outgear you. It doesn’t matter how good of a player you are. You’re not going to be able to outplay someone who can just hit you for more damage than you have health.
If ilvls have to matter, it should be a miniscule amount. Conquest gear should only be like 10 ilvls above honor gear. So there’s a gap but it’s not insurmountable.
How is being decent rating in PvP now this? Are you saying people are not hitting 2200 rating every season because of gear?
WoW still does this and is doing very well. It’s the vision of the game. People have been claiming this game is dying since WOTLK. Game is doing very well for being 17 years old. If people don’t like it, don’t play it. Just like how other people don’t play other games because they don’t like gameplay/content.
Game also died in Cata. Hit its peak during WotLK.
I’m honestly trying to understand this analogy but it just doesn’t fit. It just seems you’re reaching for a extreme. I mean when I leveled my last took He was just over 220 the first week and over renown 50. And it honestly did not take that long. Meaning I wasn’t sitting in front of the computer for 6+ hours a day. If you get yourself behind one content again that is a player problem.
I agree but that is a damage problem. That is abilities problems like convoke during season one. We have a burst meta and damage is out of control. My DK is 252 in pvp and can lose over 40k in one hit still. So if everyone had the same gear the damage would still be there and people then would be complaining about damage. It’s not a gear issue it is damage.
I’m not going to disagree I always advocated for two different sets. But with two different sets I also agree if you’re someone who runs nothing but a Randoms it should take you almost the entire season to get a conquest set. But like I said I do enjoy the progression as it something to push and look forward to to a point where you are happy.
It’s just you cannot please the PVP community. It’s just full of whiners and nothings ever good enough and people want the max reward for doing the least amount of content. This by far was one of the easiest expansions to conquest cab and people were still complaining about it. Yes the honor is a grind, But conquest capping was so easy and you still had people begging for a catch-up system.
That skill gap exists now on top of a tremendous gear gap.
WoW is not doing well right now.
It absolutely is like that. Again, I got hit for 45k from an ancient aftershock crit by some dude with 70k hp while I had 39k hp. I don’t think it’s acceptable to wait a week for the game to be fun. I define fun as having the chance to beat somebody or at least think to myself that I learned a new trick or a way of dealing with a class I have trouble with, or at least have something to think about in that regard. Not getting crit for literally all of my HP.
I don’t even have a problem with high damage, fast-paced metas necessarily. But the problem with that is that if you don’t have the HP, a short fight becomes a triviality with anyone who has gear.
You do realize every single expansion people complain about gear and PVP. People would rather blame something else rather than for their own skill. You have people pushing rating easy. Most of the issues why people can’t push rating is more of a skill issue not the gear. You’re not gonna be facing 252 players in lower MMR. There’s not this amazing amount of carry groups going on which people over exaggerate as another excuse as to why they can’t push.
Well I bet you are a very successful business person and you can tell me how it’s not. The game is still making a lot of money which means it is doing well. And no they’re not doing well because of token buying that is just the dumbest things people on the forums can come up with.
I already said I don’t think it’s fun either. But it is a progression game. Because you can look at the other side of it someone who is doing harder Content wants better gear because that is the point. Grinding for one or two weeks isn’t a huge deal for this game one seasons last months. They have massive content for players to do. If you choose only one content that is on the player.
Damage is the problem lol. In season one with people with gear because I was playing at 2100 on my boomkin I switch to Kyrian to joke around. Triple star surge hitting people for approximately 25K each. Even with gear they’re dead in 2. Even if you add more hit points the problem is there could be another character using his burst which is hitting just as hard. Especially in a battleground where you have multiple characters. Damage is over tuned. It’s just gonna be something people have to agree to disagree. You have people who think because I don’t wanna do content I just want the best things and everything to be on it equal playing field. On the other end you have people who want rewards for doing harder content because their character should be more powerful. It is a argument that goes back years but it is the point of the game.
Yeah because it’s trash.
It’s not a lack of skill that leads players to literally be oneshotted while only tickling their enemy. That’s the gear gap.
You will in random BGs. Which is what a lot of people find more fun because you can just hop in without having to wait to get a group together. A lot of people, including myself, don’t like tying our schedules to other people’s for game time.
WoW has probably around 1 million subs right now. PVP participation has dropped off a cliff, so has raid participation.
It’s making money off of whales. The business model is entirely catered to whales. Blizzard makes more money off of the extraneous purchases than they do subs. Not just boosting which is a huge part of their cut, but also mounts, transmogs, pets, 6 month subs, transfers, etc. One person can spend as much as 100 people on WoW tokens and be considered a much more valuable and profitable mode. It’s why so many free to play games exist, ostensibly it’s free, right? Except people will pay millions to get ahead or to get special cosmetics. This is a well documented fact.
I think there are plenty of alternative rewards like more special mounts, spell skins, titles, armor and tints etc that can provide more than enough incentive for people to want to PVP for those high tier rewards. It shouldn’t be about having gear that absolutely overpowers anyone just getting into the game or heaven forbid wants to play all the classes that they’ve paid for. In PVP at least.
I only do arena at any given point in the past because I have to, not because I want to. I want to just hop on at any given time, drop into a battleground with unknown variables, and see what happens. Doing arenas is only ever to get conq gear so I don’t get totally smushed in PVP. It’s a chore to me. Arenas are like dailies for people who want a piece of gear from a rep grind. I don’t care about the special mounts and titles and armor tints at the high end so I don’t go for them, I don’t get them, and that’s fine. I just want to play battlegrounds and have fun in them. That’s it. That’s why I primarily stick to the lower level brackets these days, because despite the problems those have, it’s better than grinding honor in order to do arenas in order to get conquest gear in order to just have fun in battlegrounds.
And I get that. But all I’m asking is for Random Battle Grounds to have Templates. RBG’s Arenas, and world PvP can stay the way it is. I just don’t think that it’s healthy for a person trying PvP for the first time to get their head knocked off as their first impression because their ILvL is low. All templates would do is make the gearing process starting out easier and more fair.
Then this game is not for you it is that simple. People even complained in WOD and people are asking for that back. Even when that expansion was out people were calling it the worst expansion.
But you’re taking some thing that is a minority. Maybe what they should do is lower the beginning MMR for fresh toons. Do you have people who have never been at a decent rating complaining the reason they are losing is because of gear when in fact it really is a skill problem. If you have the skill you will get the rating if you have the rating you will get the gear. The problem is people don’t want to do it. You are acting like if you have to drop your MMR so you can do the grind that it’s gated by the most decked out players which is completely not true.
But you also are ignoring the fact you can jump in arena 100 times faster and gear up 100 times faster. You don’t have to do rated battlegrounds which is probably the most toxic community in the game. All I did on a few toons and push my rating. And was doing battlegrounds with friends. I don’t like arena that much either but I wanted to progress the character so I could have better gear.
Brother is no proof to this this is something people on forums made up. People are acting like they are spending $800 on tokens to get carries. If carries were that big of a problem people would not be buying tokens because it would be cheaper to get it elsewhere. In season one I was running with some warrior who said he does carries with his group where it is 100,000 gold per win. So you need 30 wins to get a decent rating. 3 million gold…. That is a lot of tokens.
Also there is not thousands of people buying any type of carry. It is relatively a small number. There is not 30 teams a day queuing up doing carries that’s just ridiculous to even think.
The first time I ran with the skill that I am in they’re pretty casual players. They are hard stuck at 1500. They were playing a team when I was with them that had everyone at about 50k health and a rogue at 30k.
In the 1500 MMR bracket. They started complaining immediately it’s a carry group. So at the end of the match looked at details looked them up if I remember right two of those players have been above 2K. This is seriously what people keep saying or carry groups. It just gives people a reason to blame their loss on something else.
To them it wasn’t the fact that they picked up the orbs then hit in a corner allowing them to get their orbs. Both teams just sat there then they went in the middle while my team just wanted to sit in the corner. Right off the start that should tell you that’s not a carry group. So they split the team up to push middle and stay with the orbs and their primary target was a shadow priest who did not have an orb. They complain that the issue is the gear gap and carries going on rather than look at they don’t know what they are doing and refuse to want to adapt to how you play rated. This is the majority of players and the actuality of rated.
I know it is more than 1 million. But you still realize there are so many other games out there that can’t even sell 1 million of their games. The game is successful no matter how you want to look at it. It’s not doing as well as it has but the game is still doing very well.
They did do that in WOD. You had some people who liked it and you had players who did not like it. But it’s a very small fraction of people who feel the need to push every single season and get the highest possible rating. I don’t care either way because I’ve liked both systems. I do enjoy the progression even though for me I was pushing rating and getting what I wanted in a day. Then I just have to grind the honor for the upgrades and every now and then win another game.
Everything in this game as a chore to someone. But the point of the game people can’t grasp because they don’t want to put in the work is it is a progression. It is not that hard at all to push rating unless you’re playing some very off-the-wall spec like a tank. I do feel bad for the casual player who actually tries to do other content but are having issues. But for someone who just wants to login and do random battlegrounds and then complain that they get destroyed all the time, I don’t. That is the players choice.
They just want everything to be simplistic and given things because they don’t want to do other content.
I mentioned this game bow down to people who just want to do dailies mythic plus and raids only. I’m not talking about someone who does all of them I’m talking about someone who just wants to do one of those things. Because they’re gonna want the best gear also for doing absolutely nothing.
I actually enjoyed templates. I mostly was playing feral in legion and I did some insane numbers. But if you came to forums you still had people complaining that mythic Raiders had the upper hand and it was unfair. You honestly were talking about percent increases in stats. Someone 30 item levels above you might have one percent more crit 3% more mastery 2% more heist and 2% more versatility. That is such a small increase in damage whether people want to admit it or not. And people still came and complained that it was unfair. This is the wild PVP community.
Get some reality man
I like your toons name, not sure if it’s related to afrotechmods but it reminded me of him anyways.
Not the OP, but just gonna jump in here.
This has been said multiple times over the years as subs have dwindled. The people that this game is for is getting smaller and smaller with each expansion. Soon it’s going to be less than a million players as a F2P game where everything in the store costs gems that you need to purchase.
The majority of players in PvP are unrated though. Rated content isn’t harder to play, it’s just harder to organize. It’s also completely dependent on your class and spec as your MMR increases. You’re a Warrior, I’m a BM hunter, we can jump in arenas all day with ease. Who would turn us down? As you stated later in your post, Arenas are 100x faster to gear through and to queue with, but there are classes that are undesirable especially in 2s which is the easiest way.
Subs are at a record low while profits are at a high. They aren’t baking cookies and selling them out of HQ. There’s a guy in my friend group that’s a whale (I won’t claim that d-bag as a friend) and last month he spend $3,000 on various games. I’m not sure how much of that went to WoW, but I can tell you he has all the gear he wants from paying for M+ runs, despite being terrible at the game. He also won’t PvP because “it’s too boring” but will duel people when challenged, lose, and then yell class imbalance. HE’S A BALANCE DRUID.
But it doesn’t change the statement. It’s like I played Apex with my ex girlfriend for a while and I actually was not bad but I just don’t like FPS. The game was not meant for me.
Game developers all have a vision for their game. They are staying true to their vision. They’re probably the same mindset as a artist or you’re not going to tell them how they have to do their art. They want people to enjoy what they created.
As of right now it’s not hard to get conquest it’s very fast to gear. If people want to ignore arena and the worst of the worst which is rated battlegrounds do to player base.
You also can PVE and gear up just as fast and then start grinding the rating required for upgrades. Players have lots of avenues and if they want to lock them selves behind one concept of the game that is their fault.
That is where maybe this game is not meant for you.
Comp does not matter until you were pushing high rating. If you’re just trying to get to 14 or 1600 All that matters is have a DPS and a healer. You can make your own group to avoid the I have to copy top players in brackets that don’t matter.
In one of the guilds I am in they have had several people who have never stepped into arena until this season and most of them have pushed over 1800. Achieving those simple rating is not hard in arena. People are just scared of it because it’s different. They can’t sit there and free cast if they’re casters they can’t chase people into no man’s land being melee.
It is a different environment and they just don’t want to adjust how they play to fit the new gameplay. And then you also have the people who are just so bad I don’t even understand why they would play a complex game.
That’s just a simple fast story when I was on my feral. My partner dced. Was me versus a ret and Windwalker. No karma no bubble no bop. Literally soloed the ww. The ret still has not even mounted. Re-stealth and then soloed him. Now if you’re that bad yes you’re gonna have the worst time in arena and I will apologize for that. Then having gated gear is not gonna work in their favor.
The thing is I can’t find anything on the Internet that even proves this. If you even look at any quarter reports it’s not going to be listed as World of Warcraft it’s going to be for all of blizzards games. So if they are making the biggest profit it’s still including all of their games it’s nothing to do with just one. But again I can’t tell you anything about the subscriptions because I never can find it it is something that is said every single expansion on the forums this is the lowest they have ever been.
The thing is I have quit this game multiple times for months because real life was going on. I was working too much or it was just too nice of a summer. I said before I had people in Discord who have stopped because they’ve had babies. Well that was only two people by looked at it the other day.
A lot of this player base are older people with real life issues. I have seen several times people graduating college or getting a new job so they stopped playing the game. That is the majority that is leaving the game.
This is the most I have played in years but again that’s because I’m at home now 24/7. It had nothing to do with how the game was going or blizzard in general it was I had different priorities.
But then randomly when I got bored and I wanted to play the game I wanted to cry out because it was almost impossible because I was so far behind. But I do like the progression and gearing.
I can’t tell you anything about the whales because I think that is way more rare. i don’t think their is enough people in the world to give games profit via being a whale.
But honestly this game is more dying not because of the dabs in my opinion and through my experience with people. It is dying because it’s a old game and the player base is getting older.
Because if my life goes the way it is planned, come the spring I should be done with it as well.
You say it isn’t hard to get rating yet you have ZERO?
Take what Slaughtr says with a grain of salt. Here is a guy with ZERO rating and in another thread said that Versatility isn’t important in PvP.
It will make less people buy tokens/boosts…so it will never happen.
Bro you were all over the forums just making yourself look silly. I pushed 1800 on my Feral and my death knight.
My feral was full 226 from last season.
My death night was leveled during season two and Iran mythic’s plus got the gear and pushed 1800 and it took four hours. Well just under four hours I’m just rounding up to be nice.
I really don’t care of the type of groups you try and join. I never have issues getting into decent groups because I know what to look for. From a lot of people I played with during season one we always joked if you saw a versatility requirement it was not a group to join.
I definitely avoid the 1/3/6 post since majority of them spend their time probably conducting normal raids.
But yes it is pretty easy to get rating to a certain point with nothing but PVE gear.
If you disagree cool I really don’t care. I already did it.