I think the OP means dungeon running for gear progression. Heroic dungeons were the path to raiding back in the day. Right now it’s still on the progression track, but the OP doesn’t like Mythic+. So his progression path is limited, and it’s harder later in an xpac to get into late tier raids without Mythic+. At least, that’s how I see his comment.
12 Likes
So, exactly like Heroic dungeon gear always have been even before Mythic
Then go raid for your progression. You’ve already said you think that was the better model.
Because 5man dungeons have traditionally had so much longevity over the course of an expansion.
No they weren’t.
Uh… I feel you’re not even trying anymore.
3 Likes
OP you’re clearly seeing something we’re not because no one here other than you sees much of a difference between the way it used to be and the way it is now. There’s just an additional bit of content.
You are talking like people spam ran dungeons 2 months in to Classic. Most people were raid logging for MC and/or playing alts. Dungeons always became irrelevant quickly at max level until M+.
2 Likes
The only time 5-man dungeons had relevancy outside of the first two weeks of an expansion was when T10 hit and Blizz was giving away T9 sets for Emblems so everyone would get to see ICC before Wrath ended.
2 Likes
You can do that without a timer though. The go go go zerg everything mentality only really started in Wrath (when AoEs became super common and powerful.) Before that CC and planning were required in most dungeons, no timed chests required.
3 Likes
Rubbish. They have created challenging 5 in the past. Mechagon HM is a good example.
About as fun as having a timer and having to run a dungeon non stop. About as fun as having to stack OP FOTM classes. This is such a stupid argument, because nobody was ever waiting for lust between pulls.
The timer is just a pressure. It doesn’t change the difficulty of the instance, it just requires you to stack OP FOTM classes, and not stop. If you purposely fail the timer and take your time, the difficulty is basically the same.
3 Likes
In Vanilla to a point sure when we needed to grind up resist gear (hello mara…)
Outside of that the only time 5 mans had much staying power was for badges (youd run just enough for your badges and stop) or the late ones like ToC and ICC 5mans, and those were more of catchup dungeons.
The only impact M+ had on dungeons is now everyone tries to shortcut/chainpull like they were in one… witch can be funny or tragic in normal/heroic while everyone is gearing up.
2 Likes
The timer IS the difficulty. Without it, there’s no risk. Without the risk, there’s no fun.
you can still do this just do some m0’s then go do normal castle nathria hell you can do it with some pvp gear to fill out slots you didnt get drops for.
You can definitely do M+s without stacking FoTM classes.
So your entire argument is wrong.
4 Likes
I thought heroic dungeons gave 171 item level stuff. Then move on to normal raiding from there.
Hardmode mechagon (at the appropriate ilvl when released) required far more skill and execution than failing a m+10. It didn’t need a timer to provide unique challenges and was difficult enough to be engaging.
We need more content like that, and less timed/random cancerous affix content.
7 Likes
Good point, OP could go play Classic if he wants his dungeons back. He’ll be disappointed for sure.
1 Like
Give us back REAL item upgrades where the upgrade was an ACTUAL NEW ITEM and not just the same damn item with a +5 item level tacked onto it.
3 Likes
you’re not wrong. unfortunately m+ has unleashed a wave of toxicity upon the game’s community at large that im not sure we’ll ever be able to rid ourselves of.
speedrunning esports content is antithetical to everything an mmorpg is supposed to be.
26 Likes
The OP is looking to run dungeons for entertainment, not as a path to get gear to do content he doesn’t like.
1 Like
That literally still exists. Raid gear is different than dungeon gear.