Right, but doing GDKP on the game modes it’s not allowed on would be breaking the rules and risk a ban.
You can rules lawyer your way around it any way you want but Blizzard sets the rules, so they decide what isn’t allowed.
3 Likes
Sure. Which I just said I’m not doing. Not sure what your point is.
im not sure what yours is. you say its not against EULA. so go do your gdkp and enjoy your ban?
I mean, maybe if you go re-read the whole post Leynia quoted without really reading or comprehending themselves you’d get the point but I’m not gonna hold my breath.
you lost them at read, they don’t do that
you said:
the rest of that quote isnt relevant. it doesnt matter if theyve made any prior effort. they made the effort NOW
that is whats relevant.
you were then informed that gdkp on the modes its not allowed would be breaking the rules
you replied
which brings me back to my comment:
exactly what point are you trying to make? (rhetorical, we all know you dont have a point to make)
Its impressive you quoted exactly what he said, yet cannot grasp what he meant despite how clear it is.
1 Like
Your argument makes some strong assumptions without actually proving that banning GDKPs was an effective solution. Let’s break down why your reasoning doesn’t hold up:
1. GDKPs Being an “Enabler” Doesn’t Mean They Were the Main Issue
You claim that GDKPs were a major laundering method for RMT gold, yet you fail to prove that removing them meaningfully reduced RMT activity.
- If RMT “lost efficiency,” then explain why bots are still thriving at nearly identical levels as before.
- You act like cutting off GDKPs was a significant blow to gold sellers, but the reality is gold buying simply shifted—meaning demand never went away.
- Banning GDKPs did not eliminate bot farms, proving that they were not the core driver of RMT, just one outlet among many.
2. Your Own Words Prove That RMT Adapted Without GDKPs
You sarcastically acknowledge that gold buyers shifted to AH and boosts—but that alone proves that removing GDKPs did not actually stop RMT.
- If GDKPs were the “prime gold sink,” but gold buying still exists, then clearly RMT didn’t need them to survive.
- The ban did nothing to eliminate bot supply—it just moved illicit gold into other, less structured distribution channels.
3. Your Definition of “Structure” Is Misleading
You mock GDKPs for being structured, yet you ignore the fact that every loot system in WoW has flaws:
- Loot councils, DKP, and roll-based systems all have favoritism and RNG issues, yet you act like GDKPs were uniquely damaging.
- GDKPs allowed clear, predictable loot distribution—without them, loot drama and unpredictability have increased, hurting casual players.
- If GDKPs were purely “pay-to-win,” then explain why they were widely used by legitimate players to fairly distribute loot instead of relying on biased guild systems.
4. Blizzard’s RMT Strategy Is Pure Optics, Not Real Solutions
You pretend like Blizzard had no other way to curb RMT, yet they completely ignored supply-side enforcement:
- VPN bans, hardware bans, and legal actions have all been successfully used in other MMOs—Blizzard simply chooses not to because account churn benefits their bottom line.
- If GDKPs were “dripping with demand,” then explain why gold sellers still exist without them—they didn’t disappear, they just pivoted.
Banning GDKPs Didn’t Fix Anything
- Bots are still here. Gold buying didn’t stop—it just shifted.
- Loot progression is now worse, with more unpredictability and drama.
- RMT demand wasn’t eliminated, meaning the ban was purely optics, not a meaningful disruption.
You need to prove that removing GDKPs actually reduced bot activity in any measurable way—otherwise, your argument is nothing more than a justification for Blizzard’s empty PR stunt.
So, do you have real numbers showing RMT declined meaningfully because of this ban, or are we just pushing the same flawed narrative?
You’ll need to host your own Vanilla server if you want full control. As long as Blizzard owns the servers, they’ll dictate how the game is played. And right now, they simply don’t want GDKPs on these realms.
3 Likes
No one said GDKPs were the only problem — just that they were the most efficient, most repeatable, and most normalized laundering tool for gold sellers. You admit RMT shifted after the ban? Great — that’s literally evidence that GDKPs were a key driver. You don’t “shift” away from something unless it was doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
“Bots are still around!” Cool. RMT existed before GDKPs too — no one claimed it would disappear overnight. But cutting off a major distribution method absolutely hurts RMT efficiency. Now it’s harder to launder large sums in one clean weekly raid. That’s a win, not a silver bullet.
“Structure and fairness!” You mean structure like “the richest person wins”? Let’s not pretend GDKPs were some democratic utopia. They turned loot into an auction for swipers and encouraged whales to bankroll their way into gear. That’s not “fair,” it’s pay-to-win disguised as raid content.
“Other loot systems have flaws!” Yes. But most of them don’t require swiping Visa to keep up. The fact that GDKPs were more predictable isn’t a virtue when that predictability came from real money spending and not gameplay.
“Blizzard didn’t ban gold sellers, just GDKPs!” Cool story. So you agree Blizzard didn’t go far enough — but that doesn’t make banning GDKPs a bad call. It makes it the first step. Removing a tool RMT relied on is better than doing nothing.
So let’s stop pretending GDKPs were innocent. If your defense is “well, gold buyers just moved to other places,” then congratulations — you’ve proven they were a major pipeline.
Now ask yourself: if gold buyers and sellers preferred GDKPs… why are you defending them so hard?
1 Like
Your argument hinges on the assumption that removing GDKPs meaningfully disrupted RMT, but you fail to prove that Blizzard’s decision had any real impact on gold selling operations. Let’s break it down:
1. “Shifting RMT Proves GDKPs Were a Key Driver” – False Equivalence
You argue that because RMT adapted after GDKPs were banned, that somehow proves GDKPs were a key pipeline. But adaptation is not proof of causation—it just proves that demand for gold exists independently of any single system.
- If GDKPs were such a critical laundering tool, why didn’t bot activity decline after their removal?
- If the economy shifted to other gold sinks immediately, then GDKPs were not the backbone of RMT, just one outlet among many.
- Cutting off one method of distribution does not inherently weaken an entire economy—it just redirects transactions elsewhere, proving demand is the real issue, not the system itself.
2. Your “Harder to Launder Large Sums” Argument Ignores Alternative Gold Sinks
You argue that removing GDKPs made it harder to launder large amounts of gold weekly, but that ignores the numerous other ways RMT operates:
- Boosting services, where buyers funnel gold into carried runs instead of raid auctions.
- Auction House flipping, which allows discreet transfers through artificially priced items.
- Private gold trades, which bots facilitate without structured raid environments.
If the purpose of banning GDKPs was to eliminate easy laundering methods, then it failed—because gold sellers immediately adapted without issue. The demand never disappeared, it just shifted, proving that GDKPs were not the root issue, just a visible method of transaction.
3. “GDKPs Were Just for the Richest Players” – False Narrative
You frame GDKPs as pure pay-to-win, but that’s a convenient oversimplification:
- Players earned gold through farming, professions, and smart trading—not just purchases.
- GDKPs allowed controlled loot distribution, ensuring rewards went to those willing to invest time and resources, rather than random rolls or biased loot councils.
- DKP inflation, biased loot councils, and roll systems all have flaws, but you ignore them entirely to frame GDKPs as uniquely damaging.
If GDKPs were truly only for whales, then why were they widely used by non-RMT players to fairly distribute loot? You don’t address the actual advantages of structured distribution, instead opting for emotional framing.
4. “Blizzard Didn’t Ban Gold Sellers, Just GDKPs” – You Prove My Point
You acknowledge that Blizzard didn’t go far enough—but you act like removing one tool was some major victory when the actual problem wasn’t addressed at all.
- Bots still exist.
- Gold buyers still exist.
- RMT demand has not declined.
If banning GDKPs didn’t eliminate bots or gold buying, then it wasn’t an actual solution—it was an optical PR stunt meant to appease frustrated players. If Blizzard wanted real enforcement, they would have targeted supply-side mechanics, not just a loot system.
Your Argument Doesn’t Prove Real Change Happened
You can frame GDKPs as “RMT pipelines” all you want, but unless you prove that banning them meaningfully reduced gold selling, it’s just speculation.
- Bots are still thriving despite the ban.
- Gold buying hasn’t disappeared—it’s just moved elsewhere.
- Loot progression is now worse, with more unpredictability and increased loot drama.
So what exactly did this ban accomplish beyond creating a messy, unstructured loot system with no actual reduction in bot activity?
If you want to argue that banning GDKPs was a success, provide real evidence that RMT has significantly declined—otherwise, this is just narrative spinning instead of factual discussion.
Gdkp threads being overrun by bots?
Just like the gdkps themselves
3 Likes
You’re not defending GDKPs — you’re defending the single most RMT-friendly system ever implemented in an MMO. Let’s shred this.
1. You confuse adaptation with irrelevance — classic misdirection.
“If GDKPs were critical, why didn’t bots vanish?”
Because removing a major pipeline doesn’t delete demand — it just throws a wrench in the machine. That’s what happened.
GDKPs gave gold sellers scheduled, predictable laundering on a silver platter: weekly events where thousands of gold changed hands under the guise of raiding.
Without them? RMT has to scatter across more obvious and risky channels. That’s not survival — that’s desperation.
2. You admit gold buying “shifted” — congratulations, you just proved the ban hurt RMT.
You can’t seriously claim the system wasn’t essential and then say its removal caused a mass migration of RMT to other channels.
That’s like saying shutting down the busiest port didn’t matter… because smugglers had to reroute their shipments through the jungle.
GDKPs were ideal:
- Massive laundering per lockout
- Low detection risk
- Community-normalized
You don’t get that kind of volume or convenience from AH-flipping or sketchy boosts.
“It just redirected transactions.” Yeah. Like locking the bank vault “just redirects” robbers to break windows. That’s called friction — and friction is the enemy of RMT.
3. “GDKPs were fair and transparent” is the most laughable cope in this thread.
You’re pitching a system where the richest player buys all the loot as some utopian meritocracy — seriously?
“People earned their gold!”
And others just bought it. The system didn’t care. It rewarded whoever had the fattest wallet, regardless of effort or integrity.
“Other systems have flaws too!”
Sure — but those flaws don’t funnel RMT gold through 25-player laundering parties every Thursday. Only GDKPs did that.
You’re defending a loot system that told legit players: “grind 100 hours or just PayPal it.” And you think that’s a win?
4. “Blizzard didn’t go far enough” — correct. That doesn’t make removing GDKPs worthless.
Saying the ban was a PR stunt because RMT didn’t disappear is like saying taking a gun away from a criminal is pointless because they still have a knife.
Removing GDKPs:
- Cut off the most visible, reliable RMT platform
- Removed social legitimacy from gold buying
- Disrupted organized laundering
“Show me the data!”
There isn’t a graph titled “RMT died here.” But guess what — neither is there one proving your fantasy of a healthy GDKP economy built on hard work and sunshine. All we have is behavioral evidence:
RMT shifted. Sellers adapted. They lost their easiest route. That’s not “nothing.” That’s damage.
how many more times are you going to self own yourself?
1 Like
Yeah, he lacks the intelligence to argue against you with chatgpt and is just proving once again why gdkps are banned 
3 Likes
Your argument leans heavily on emotional framing while ignoring the actual economic reality of RMT and loot systems. Let’s break it down:
1. Shifting RMT Proves Nothing About GDKPs Being the Core Issue
You’re claiming that because RMT shifted, GDKPs must have been a key driver. But adaptation doesn’t prove causation—it just proves that gold buying demand exists regardless of the system in place.
- If GDKPs were so critical to RMT operations, then their removal should have caused a major decline in bot activity—but it didn’t. Bots are still farming just as aggressively.
- Gold buyers didn’t suddenly vanish. They immediately pivoted to AH transactions, boosting services, and direct trading. That alone proves that RMT was never dependent on GDKPs—it was dependent on demand.
- Saying “RMT has to scatter across riskier channels” ignores that those channels have existed for years, and were already widely used before GDKPs became popular.
Shutting down a single gold sink didn’t damage RMT—it just forced gold laundering into less structured and more chaotic distribution points.
2. Your Own Comparison Proves the Ban Was Optics, Not an Effective Fix
You compare removing GDKPs to shutting down a major port and forcing smugglers to use worse routes. That sounds dramatic, but here’s the issue:
- Smugglers still deliver the goods regardless. The supply chain doesn’t stop, it just shifts—exactly what happened with RMT.
- Gold sellers haven’t stopped laundering gold, they just moved to more unpredictable and harder-to-track methods—which Blizzard now struggles to monitor more effectively.
You act like causing “friction” is a win, but that assumes RMT hasn’t adapted just as efficiently. And judging by the current bot activity and gold-selling ads, RMT hasn’t been slowed down at all.
3. GDKPs Were Never a Pure “Pay-to-Win” System
Your definition of GDKPs being purely “the richest player wins” is intentionally misleading.
- Legitimate players earned gold through in-game effort—not everyone participating was a PayPal swiper.
- Traditional loot systems have their own flaws, including biased loot councils, inflated DKP systems, and RNG rolls that favor guild hierarchy.
- Removing GDKPs didn’t create a fairer loot system—it made loot drama worse by forcing players back into subjective loot distribution methods with no transparency.
If GDKPs were so fundamentally bad for the game, explain why so many players now want them back—because current loot distribution hasn’t solved the original problems Blizzard claimed it would.
4. “Blizzard Didn’t Go Far Enough” – You Just Proved My Point
You say that removing GDKPs was a necessary first step, but you fail to prove that it resulted in any actual reduction in RMT operations.
- Bots still exist despite GDKPs being gone.
- Gold buyers still purchase illicit gold, just through different methods.
- RMT demand has not decreased, proving that Blizzard’s action was more about optics than effectiveness.
The gun-to-knife comparison fails because taking away a single weapon doesn’t stop criminal behavior—it just makes it slightly less convenient while the underlying issue remains unchanged.
5. “Show Me the Data” – That Goes Both Ways
You claim that RMT has suffered major damage from this ban, yet you provide zero hard data to back up that claim.
- Where are the bot activity decline metrics?
- Where is the significant reduction in gold-buying transactions?
- Where is the proof that Blizzard successfully disrupted gold laundering beyond making it slightly more inconvenient?
You demand evidence for a “healthy GDKP economy,” but the burden of proof is on you to show that removing them had any meaningful impact on reducing RMT. So far, all available information suggests that the RMT market adjusted effortlessly.
Your Argument Is Built on Narrative, Not Facts
If banning GDKPs actually crippled RMT, you’d be able to provide clear data showing a significant reduction in bot activity and illicit gold selling. Instead, all you have is the assumption that “friction” automatically equals disruption, even when evidence suggests that RMT remains as active as ever.
So either provide actual proof that this ban worked, or admit that Blizzard’s decision was mostly about optics rather than effectiveness.
its literally that easy to manipulate them. that probably actually is legit a bot. i cant believe a real person is behind that account and is unironically using this as an argument while they repeatedly agree with points my gpt threw out. seems like they dont even realize that they proved several of my points. literally self owning
2 Likes
He is also debunking pro gdkpers arguments now
They won’t even be happy about this
He has just debunked their argument of “blizzard said banning gdkps would stop RMT”
Almost like we have been saying the whole time
Your argument relies entirely on speculation and attempts to discredit the discussion rather than engaging with the actual points being made. Let’s clarify a few things:
1. If You Think the Argument Proved Several of Your Points, Then Why Not Address Them?
You claim that my responses unintentionally reinforce your stance—but if that were actually true, why haven’t you pointed out any specific contradictions or flaws in my reasoning? Instead, your post leans on dismissal rather than actually engaging in a debate.
2. How Does Calling Someone a Bot Prove Your Argument?
If your position was strong, you wouldn’t need to claim that the opposing side isn’t human—you’d break down the flaws in their reasoning instead. If you believe the argument is weak, then dissect it point by point. Otherwise, this just comes off as an attempt to avoid the discussion entirely.
3. If GDKPs Were Truly the Core Driver of RMT, Why Did Bot Activity Remain High After Their Ban?
Since you seem convinced that GDKPs were the key laundering method for gold sellers, explain why bots didn’t disappear after the ban. If removing GDKPs was such a major disruption to RMT, why did gold-selling operations immediately pivot to AH transactions, boosts, and private trades without any noticeable decline in activity?
Focus on the Debate, Not the Deflections
You can keep calling people bots all you want, but it doesn’t answer any of the critical questions about RMT mechanics. If your argument holds weight, break it down logically instead of resorting to baseless accusations.
Do you want to discuss the actual topic, or are we sticking to distractions?
Flaw 1: “Your argument relies entirely on speculation.”
→ Projection and baseless dismissal.
This opener accuses the other side of speculating while immediately speculating about intent: “attempts to discredit the discussion.” It’s a circular tactic used when no actual rebuttal is available.
Reality: The argument in question is likely citing clear causal relationships: RMT relied on GDKPs because they were consistent, scalable, and socially normalized. That’s not speculation — it’s supported by bot behavior, gold package ads, and historical in-game economics.
Flaw 2: “You didn’t point out specific contradictions.”
→ Self-own.
This is ironic, because this entire post also fails to provide any specific counter-arguments. It uses vague demands for “engagement” while offering nothing concrete in return. That’s the definition of deflection.
Flaw 3: “Calling someone a bot weakens your position.”
→ Strawman and tone policing.
This presumes that a rhetorical jab invalidates an entire argument. It’s a classic “gotcha” deflection, meant to dodge the actual content of the discussion by shifting focus to civility rather than substance.
Flaw 4: “If GDKPs were the core of RMT, why didn’t bots disappear?”
→ False dichotomy + misunderstanding of systemic disruption.
This assumes that the only valid outcome of banning GDKPs would be the total disappearance of bots. That’s not how supply chains work — especially not illicit ones.
The fact that bots had to shift to AH boosting and private trades actually proves GDKPs were a major vector. This argument accidentally reinforces the exact point it’s trying to debunk.
Flaw 5: “Do you want to discuss or distract?”
→ Hollow rhetorical flourish.
Ironically, this whole post is the distraction — full of tone policing, bad faith misdirection, and a total failure to engage the actual mechanics of how GDKPs functioned within RMT ecosystems.
In Summary:
This post:
- Dismisses the other side without engaging substance.
- Misrepresents causal arguments as “speculation.”
- Demands specificity while offering none.
- Misunderstands how disruption affects black markets.
- Uses tone policing and victim framing to avoid refuting anything.
It’s rhetorical fog dressed up as rational debate. And once you clear it, there’s nothing of substance behind it.
as your your other posts:
1. “RMT Still Exists, So GDKPs Weren’t the Problem!”
Cool logic — by that standard, we should legalize all forms of laundering since fraud still exists.
You’re confusing persistence with immunity. Just because botting continues doesn’t mean GDKPs weren’t one of RMT’s most efficient laundering and distribution methods.
Removing the most socially accepted outlet for illegal gold added friction. RMT didn’t vanish, but it got weaker — and you pretending otherwise doesn’t change that.
2. “GDKPs Were Just One Outlet” — Yeah, the Most Abused One
Stop trying to paint GDKPs as neutral systems.
They didn’t just “move gold around,” they incentivized the entire raid structure around gold-buying as progression. Players bought gold not just to gear themselves — but to fund guild runs, cover cuts, and scale profits.
No other loot system in WoW history made real-money access to gear this normalized. You’re not defending a loot system — you’re defending a financial cartel disguised as raid content.
3. “Other Loot Systems Have Flaws Too!”
And none of them directly encouraged RMT.
You’re trying to equate favoritism or RNG with a system that literally rewarded people for spending real-world cash.
GDKPs were “transparent” the same way auctions are transparent: the rich win. That’s not structure — that’s financial gatekeeping masquerading as fairness.
The fact that some people farmed gold legitimately doesn’t magically cleanse the inherent pay-to-win mechanics baked into the model.
4. “If It Was Effective, Show Me the Bot Decline”
And where’s your data showing GDKPs weren’t central to RMT scaling?
This burden-shifting is laughable. We both know Blizzard’s not releasing detailed RMT flow charts — but common sense economics tells you:
- RMT thrived on high-volume, low-risk laundering.
- GDKPs gave them exactly that, inside the endgame raiding structure.
You’re not arguing in good faith — you’re hiding behind the lack of public metrics to pretend nothing happened.
5. “The Ban Was Optics, Not a Real Solution”
Let me get this straight:
You acknowledge Blizzard didn’t stop gold sellers, bots, or account buyers — but still think removing GDKPs, one of the most RMT-optimized systems ever made, was a bad idea because it didn’t fix everything?
That’s called the “all or nothing” fallacy, and it’s weak. No one claimed the ban would eradicate RMT — only that it would remove a massive laundering funnel. And it did.
RMT didn’t die. It got pushed back into the shadows, where it belongs.
Bottom Line
Every argument you’ve made depends on ignoring scale, pretending laundering methods don’t matter, and pretending GDKPs were just misunderstood little loot clubs.
Here’s reality:
- GDKPs weren’t neutral — they were an RMT superhighway.
- Removing them didn’t solve RMT, but it absolutely disrupted its most socially normalized and scalable channel.
- You can either accept that, or keep deflecting behind “but bots still exist” as if that’s a mic drop instead of a limp dodge.
Either bring facts, or stop trying to nostalgia-wash a system built on pay-to-win economics.