Getting tired of my Ele always being bottom of the pile

Classes Shaman
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Bliz, you need to do better. I love playing my Shaman elemental class but you keep stripping her of decent dps capabilities.

My question to the devs: What is your problem?

But to take this further, why can’t the Devs balance all the under performing classes/specs upward instead of borking all the better performing classes/specs downward for the purpose of balance? In this scenario, no one wins.

And its mystifying to me as to why the Devs constantly do this. It just does not make sense. If a class/spec is under performing, take a look at your own programming that makes it that way!!

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How would you suggest they balance it? Instead of making open ended requests, how about you give examples of how you think they should balance the class. What currently works and what doesn’t?

Elemental has several specs you can use. Are you suffering on single target while using an AoE build? Or vice versa.

Are you using the lightning or fire build? Have you tried swapping to the other to see how it fairs?

Are other Elemental Shaman having the same problems?

Are you doing content you’re geared for? What about the gear of the people you’re grouped with? Do they have better gear than you?

Edit: some classes are better at certain things than others. There will never be perfect balance unless they completely homogenize all the classes; which nobody wants.

As per your question about nerfing vs buffing. The simple fact is that if there are 3 dps specs that are over performing in a raid and 20 that are performing as intended (you’d call it under performing based off of you looking at damage meters comparing yourself to the other specs that are over performing) it’s easier to bring the 3 over performing specs down than it is to bring up 20 specs that are performing as intended.

Likewise; if they continue to only apply buffs, sooner or later they’ll end up making the raids too easy and have to adjust the raids again. Which nobody wants.

Ps. Somebody always has to be on the bottom.

Edit 2: Do you play this game for the enjoyment and fun of the class, or do you play it for the numbers?

Because if you play it because you enjoy the class fantasy and the overall feel of the class, then numbers shouldn’t bother you as long as you’re able to clear the content.

If you’re playing simply because you want to see big numbers and you have an ego that makes you have a need to be on the top of the damage meters, then you’re never going to be happy.

You could go play a class that you feel is doing well and be happy seeing those numbers, but when that class ultimately gets nerfed, you’ll be right back here complaining again.

Wanting to perform well isn’t a bad thing, but if it’s all you care about when you’re fully able to clear the content you’re doing, then it’s a problem.

Might want to give cookie clicker a try.

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You are quite welcome to mock me. But since I am not a programmer nor a dev, there is nothing I can offer they don’t already know.

I’m just a player that is offering my personal opinion hoping the devs realize even a simple player can see the discrepancies in the classes/specs that they have created.

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Who are you comparing your dps too? At 63 class scaling is all over the place not a good gauge to determine how good your class is. That said shaman is one of the harder hitting burst dps at 70 but it will be middle of the pack almost always and you know what that’s fine. The very nature of WOW will mean there will always be a class at the bottom. I just hate the way they go about tuning use.

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Louder for those in the back.

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This. Unless you’re at 70, the numbers are completely made up and none of it matters. Go run a low level dungeon and watch a level 20 smoke you, scaling gets weird.

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People c’mon just stop. You will see eventually. Just try go against monk or dh

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I have, you’re still wrong.

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There can be class balance. Yes each class has unique capabilities and that’s what makes it it’s class. But not being a Dev yourself you can’t say there cannot be balance. There can be. And no that doesn’t mean split even down the middle it simply means much more closer to par with another rather than a big cliff of a drop from that par line

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Ele has very competitive damage, and is one of the specs fortunate enough to be able to have solid AoE and ST damage in one build. Maybe you’re just in easy content where enemies are dying too fast for you to get your damage in? If it’s not that then you must not be doing it right tbh

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Ele at 70 is pretty competitive from the limited content I’ve seen. In PvP, we’re glass cannons. But In PvE, I’ve done consistently well and have been experimenting still and seeing improvements through play

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And specifically which changes would you make to make that happen?

This is the problem, people scream at the devs “DO IT” without offering any actual suggestions on what’s working or isn’t.

Which spells do you want adjusted and by how much? HOW would you balance it? Offer helpful suggestions outside of “fix it because I’m mad!”

If you can’t; because you’re not a dev; then maybe you shouldn’t be talking about balancing the game.

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I can give you examples based on your preference to the game such as would you like balance to pve or pvp. (But I’ll also first emphasize you don’t get to talk to people like that about balancing the game when you’re no where near a Dev yourself).

Now then. pve simple. It’s no different then how all your wow fansites test damage and rank each class during a fight simply run your test then tune the under performers and simply tune the over performers and meet a middle ground with the average of the total from each class. Also make benefits for bringing one from each class in raids (shout out to ffxiv for that idea)

Pvp. if tuning from the pve perspective doesn’t quite match to how you want each class to perform during pvp combat simply apply an “only in pvp combat tuning” changes to account for proper gameplay and fair even ground.

And that’s just for dps/hps stand point.

When it comes to survivability for each class it just takes some testing and using your head and think to yourself hmm should this class really have more or less defensive capabilities in pvp/pve then the other classes. Such as comparing your rogue to a shaman. Should a rogue really get stealth/cloak/evasion/loads of instant high cc/high passive healing and compare it to your shaman who has one 40% damage reduction that might survive for 10 seconds. It’s just common sense from there. And I’m not saying take all that stuff away by any means. As that’s what makes it fun for some people but simply reduce effectiveness of the over performing abilities. And add more of or increase capabilities of the other class. And since we really want to spell it out I’ll give examples. Reduce cloak of shadows from 100% spell reduction to 30%. Reduce evasion from 100% dodge to 60%. Increase number of Astral charges and increase damage reduction on shaman. And grant more charges of spirit walker’s grace with more anti silence duration like evoker.
Also to really make things fairer id be daring enough to introduce the new “Melee ability kick” casters can now temporarily kick Melee players and prevent the use of abilities for a short duration.
Just a few examples there.

Now then. Does that make sense? Any questions?

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After playing Balance Druid i have to agree. A similarly geared Ele is noticably stronger

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Seems voicing my opinion got some heat. I just made 67 on my ele and received a decent weapon upgrade. I did see some improvement but what I was trying point out is that watching other classes/specs commenting on balance problems is not just and idea they came up with. We do feel the discrepancies.

But go ahead and flame me for my opinion if it makes you feel better. I was honest in my comment and did not deserve folks to flame me for just voicing my opinion.

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You are absolutely correct. No matter your background. Shaman, and more over elemental shaman has been getting crapped on for years. But it can change if we band together and request for better defensive improvement and better lightning build improvement!

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Exactly. By your own admission; if you’re not a game developer or someone who understands the fundamentals of game design; you should not be talking about game balance issues.

And you; I’m assuming; are not a game developer or understand the fundamentals of game design.

Therefore; by your own statement; you should not have any say on how or when the game gets balanced.

Unless you can provide specifics on HOW it should be balanced and offer real, genuine, constructive and objective feedback on specifics that should be changed to achieve your vision of balance; then you should not be commenting on it.

Constructive feedback would be indicating the changes you would like to see made to help with your vision of balance. Such as increasing the damage of the high apm filler abilities. (Lightning bolt/lava burst) Or increasing the damage or frequency of the spender abilities like Earth Shock and Earthquake. And would you like to generate more maelstrom over time or reduce the cost of the ability, or maybe implement a clear casting system.

And then you need to follow up your suggestions with the math to support how your changes will affect the class and it’s damage output, otherwise it’s just a baseles wishlist.

If you can’t offer objective feedback in how you would like things to be changed, then all you’re doing is whining because “my number is smol compared to other guy. Ego hurt. Me sad. Fix now!!!”

And it comes off as incredibly childish when you make arbitrary demands without offering a solution.

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That is wildly inaccurate. Running parses assumes perfect gameplay with set stats and gear. Parses are guaranteed a specific number of crits which doesn’t reflect how actual play works. It also uses perfect spell cast times (using an ability the instant it’s allowed to be used) and assumes you have every class buff assuming your raid can provide them. (Which, yes, can be adjusted, however the devs can’t predict what your raid team looks like and which buffs you do and don’t have.) It also assumes it’s a patchwerk fight with no movement or mechanics where you also don’t need defensives or utility.

None of which is inductive of how you or I actually play the game.

Just saying “sim it” goes to show just how little you actually know about how balancing a game would work. They need real, actual data from actual real players. Not perfect situation parses.

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I never once said you shouldn’t voice your opinion. If you feel that elemental Shaman is on the lower end if the scale, then ask for change.

What I DID say, was provide solutions. Don’t just open endedly say that it’s bad and they need to do better.

Provide examples of how they can change the class. Give them notes to go off of based on what you like vs what you don’t.

And simply saying “I don’t like any of it because it’s low” isn’t helpful to anyone. Lol. The development team can’t work with that.

If you’re going to advocate for change; give suggestions on how you would like to see that change implemented.

Ps. This is not and has never been a direct line to the developers. This is a community forum. It’s a place for players within the WoW community to come and chat amongst ourselves when we otherwise would never have any contact outside of our own servers.

The developers don’t read the forums or come here for suggestions on how they should create their game. And they certainly don’t reply to posts.

Directing questions or comments toward Wow’s development team on the forums is just screaming into the void.

Any blues you see posting are generally either a forum moderator or a community manager. Essentially forum babysitters. Not developers.

Edit: Before you say that change has been made in the past based off of player feedback, first note that it’s generally streamer and content creator feedback that they’re listening to. The people who give them free advertising every single week. The ones that promote the game simply by playing it. It’s not us on the forums that they’re listening to. Just look at all the mega threads and requests that have been here for years that have always gone unnoticed.

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Revert the beta nerf to elemental warding, back to 6% all damage instead 4% magic damage

Add a second barkskin-esque defensive cooldown.

Earthshield massive healing buff

Healing surge massive healing buff

Earthgrab totem much lower cd… from 1 minute down to 30s max, probably evem 14-20s cooldown

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I’m not the one scolding people how there cannot be balance to a numbers game that you have no clue as to how it’s programmed or have any programming knowledge for that matter. (I do) what knowledge do you have to have any right to say to people that there cannot be balance besides the knowledge of serving fries to my kids. I’ve already spilled the beans to you and spelled it out precisely how you asked. Now you’re just being a brat that can’t handle being wrong so now I realize you have a closed mindset and not worth conversing with. Good night