Getting tired of my Ele always being bottom of the pile

First of all, you’re very presumptuous and kind of a jerk for no reason. I simply said that in a game where they have to tune so many specs there can’t be perfect balance unless all specs are homogenized.

The fact that in 18 years and dozens of patches, it’s never once happened. And with them continually adding more classes and specs to balance, it’s only going to get harder for them.

Besides, I’ve never once said that Shaman shouldn’t be buffed or tweaked. All I said is that if you’re only enjoyment of the game is seeing big numbers and being better than the other guy, then you’re always going to be unhappy with the game.

The main thing that helps tuning is sometimes in the details, describing a situation or laying out the numbers.
The game really hasn’t been balanced around the levelling scene since the original release, where the journey was a multi-week endevour (memories of level 41-50 was a wild west of “well I guess I go-”). Everything really does ask for balance at 70 currently.

We can see over-tuning/under-tuning (believe it or not, just tuning) of individual abilities when we can look at specific situations given their intended operational situation. Then given the situation, lay out some kind of comparables. That can be actual numbers.

PvP
For PvP, it’s really complicated for a lot of reasons. One example though is “average time to death” (TTD) or effective health, and “average time to kill” (TTK) or effective damage dealt. The reason we can do this is because player health is relatively bracketed. Temporary defensive abilities can provide a health multiplier for a short period of time. Similarly, offensive abilities provide damage multipliers for attack power.
Other factors can be related to other factors like “Counter-play” which include laying out questions of “what’s the ramp up time?” or “how well is a play telegraphed?”

For example: Getting stuck in a stun, especially from stealth, other than the use trinket, there is no almost counter-play for shaman. Countering stealth in itself is really tough situation as shaman as well, since our damaging aoe requires ramp, so there’s limited counter-play for such a situation.
Add in the previous idea of comparable metrics, if a rogue can kill within that window (TTK), that’s a broken situation that can only be resolved with balance changes by the developers by adjusting damage or increasing defensive counter-play in some way, like idk lightning shield electromagnetic-pulse or sentry totem that detects stealth.

PvE
In PvE, I’d say that things are lot easier. This is because most of PvE revolves around boss fights. While they can be wildly designed in various ways, most can be simulated or will be attempted providing a broad body of data. Especially great are the break down of abilities taken, used, and even abused. Community tools break down the data pretty well for us to create very comparable situations and present reasonable concerns.

Less well defined are the asks for abilities that make us more attractive in the player economy. Players want to have competitive damage, utility, or just power in general, so that other players can recognize and want to play with others. Right now, there’s a lot of different utilities offered by totems, but it’s kind of a question as to which ones are really worth it, even at max level. Utilities like the returned Mana Stream Totem for elemental is almost more of a talent tree short-cut for getting to Ancestral Guidance while we are playing in content that doesn’t stress healer mana. Poison Cleanse Totem is situational, but largely accessible with a quick talent switch if given the time to prepare and impactful. But Elemental’s talents are situational in a lot of ways, like Magma Chamber which is wildly amazing if given the time to ripen, but utterly trash early on when creatures have very little health, like in the early game before 70. There are still the problematically boring talents, like Improved Flametongue Weapon, which is 5% competing with and even overwriting weapon oils.

Comparisons
Are any of the utilities as powerful as other abilities which can stack up to basically be another full player in a raid setting like mage’s Arcane Intellect or druid’s Mark of the Wild, to make shaman competitive in a player economy, is a real question.

Does our damage stack up to others? I think it’s a real question too.
BUT
I think, and my experience is all I’m going by, I’m doing well within my cohort of friends playing through Mythic 0’s that I’m very competitive damage-wise. And even more than that, experimenting with talents to match the profile of the dungeons has been improving my performance in many ways. Sometimes radical changes like switching from Stormkeeper to Icefury or Primordial to Earthquake, or small ways like ensuring I am bringing the poison cleanse.

You know a factor that is never taken into account? How the player plays the class. I have been watching some twitch shamans. Now I have been playing a shaman for a really long time. I play enhancement I consider myself very good based on other players’ reactions to some of the things I do on my shaman. Yet seeing these streamers who play elemental and one who plays enhancement even I can see that I am nowhere near the skill ability that some of these players are. So instead of getting on the devs and telling them what to do. Lets us first take a look at ourselves and how we are playing our class maybe the problem isn’t with tuning it’s with us. With that said I do agree that things like being able to heal and having better defenses would be nice. Maybe if we asked the devs to actually address those problems first instead of thinking our whole class needs to be overhauled.

Problem with ELE has always been it’s weird scaling with crit.

My easy fix for that and ELE scaling overall : remove auto crit from LvB on target with FS and instead LvB does crit% more DMG on target with FS and remove the crit DMG modifier from asc and make LvB autocrit during asc

You’re still leveling…

Scaling will be borked.

Reassess when you’re geared @70

I would agree with something like this, would make crit a bit more desirable. Would require some adjustments of course as if Lava Burst isnt always critting then it would need to be tuned around that, as I am fairly certain it is tuned around its 100% crit chance.

Personally, I think I would like to see Lava Burst scale with crit baseline and for Ascendance to just be like a 20% Buff on top of that or something.

Ive played ele shaman since tbc through 3 accounts. As far as tuning goes, this is probably the best its felt since the insane meatball build in timeless isle content, but nowhere near wotlk.

They added rng protection by giving talents to proc insta lvb on ES and PW. The 2- 3 target cleave in lava build is great, the ST is good, both pvp and pve.

The only place we are lacking is survivability against certain overtuned classes. All in all, in bgs and arena i could hold my own fairly well, even against two other melee, so long as my partners can heal and peel.

In pve, you have two options as ele. Running a lightning based build, and a lava based build. As far as what people are saying in terms of stats, i believe crit is the go to for lightning builds because it doesnt have 100% crit rate. Lightning currently outperforms lava builds in mythics because lava builds lack larger cleave, whereas lightning builds do not, and its a 30k dps difference AOE.

You’re not even level 70 yet. I hit 362 IL and I top the meters a lot. Just give yourself time to gear and you’ll see results

I hit level 70 late last night finally. Only have a few things to tidy up before I can start picking up the weeklies and WQs.

Since I was using a leveling build, I spent today looking over a few lvl 70 builds to try out. Our guild will be doing an achievement run tonight so I chose a Lightening Build from Wowhead to try out. Since I won’t be healing on a regular basis this expac, plan to do dps instead.

If anyone has any suggestions for a good setup, please feel free to offer it. I played my resto all last xpac and love it and used the fire ele build for open world questing. But since the new trees have come out, I’ve a need to go back and see what I can find that feels comfortable for me.

I have arthritis in my hands so I am limited in mobility. I’ve managed to setup a few macros to help me out but of course they don’t work very well with the new trees. So I’m on the hunt for new ones.